Friday, October 03, 2008

Independents See VP Accuracy Important React in Polls

Insta-Polls taken immediately after the Vice Presidential Debate reveal a swooping 51 % of those polled believe Joe Biden did the better job during the exchange. some 39% gave the nod to Sarah Palin.

who is better qualified to serve in the position of President? Yes you read that correctly, President.

On the question of the candidates' qualifications to assume the presidency, 87 percent of those polled said Biden is qualified and 42 percent said Palin is qualified.

87% Biden qualified to be President
42% Palin qualified to be President

Debate poll says Biden won, Palin beat expectations
(CNN) -- A national poll of people who watched the vice presidential debate Thursday night suggests that Democratic Sen. Joe Biden won, but also says Republican Gov. Sarah Palin exceeded expectations.

The CNN/Opinion Research Corp. said 51 percent of those polled thought Biden did the best job, while 36 percent thought Palin did the best job.

But respondents said the folksy Palin was more likable, scoring 54 percent to Biden's 36 percent. Seventy percent said Biden was more of a typical politician.

Both candidates exceeded expectations -- 84 percent of the people polled said Palin did a better job than they expected, while 64 percent said Biden also exceeded expectations.

How Palin would perform had been a major issue for the Alaska governor, who had some well-publicized fumbles during interviews with CBS' Katie Couric leading up to the debate.

Respondents thought Biden was better at expressing his views, giving him 52 percent to Palin's 36 Tell us who you think did best

On the question of the candidates' qualifications to assume the presidency, 87 percent of those polled said Biden is qualified and 42 percent said Palin is qualified.

CBS Polling provides even starker statistics among uncommitted voter as to who is better qualified for the job of Vice President...

98% Biden prepared to be Vice President
55% Palin prepared to be Vice President

91% Biden could be effective President
44% Palin could be effective President

October 2, 2008, 11:10 PM
CBS Poll: More Uncommitted Voters Saw Biden As Winner
Posted by Brian Montopoli

UPDATED CBS News and Knowledge Networks have conducted a nationally representative poll of 473 uncommitted voters to get their immediate reaction to tonight's vice presidential debate.

After the first presidential debate, a similar survey showed that more uncommitted voters identified Barack Obama as the winner

Final numbers from tonight's poll have yet to come in, but we do have some early results. (These numbers may change as more respondents complete the survey.) They suggest that once again more voters have responded favorably to the Democratic candidate.

Forty-six percent of the uncommitted voters surveyed say Democrat Joe Biden won the debate, compared to 21 percent for Republican Sarah Palin. Thirty-three percent said it was a tie.

Eighteen percent of previously uncommitted percent say they are now committed to the Obama-Biden ticket. Ten percent say they are now committed to McCain-Palin. Seventy-one percent are still uncommitted.

Both candidates improved their overall image tonight. Fifty-three percent of those surveyed say they now have a better impression of Biden. Five percent say they have a worse opinion of the Delaware senator, while 42 percent say they debate did not change their opinion.

Fifty-five percent say they now have a better opinion of Palin. Fourteen percent say they have a worse opinion, while 30 percent say their opinion hasn't changed.

After the debate, 66 percent see Palin as knowledgeable about important issues – up from 43 percent before the debate. But Biden still has the advantage on this – 98 percent saw him as knowledgeable after the debate. That figure was 79 percent before the debate.

Uncommitted voters’ views of Palin’s preparedness for the job of vice president also improved as a result of her debate performance - but they are still nowhere near the percentage that thinks Biden is prepared.

Fifty-five percent say Palin is prepared for the job, up from 39 percent before the debate. Ninty-seven percent say Biden is prepared, up from 81 percent pre-debate.

One obvious difference between the pair, winking capability.

another difference. Biden got the point about the folly of trying the Iraq-style surge route in Afghanistan, correct and accurate while Palin dug her side in on her own incorrect statement.

General: Iraq-style surge won't work in Afghanistan
By Ann Scott Tyson
October 2, 2008

WASHINGTON – The new top U.S. commander in Afghanistan said yesterday that more U.S. troops are urgently required to combat a worsening insurgency, but he stated emphatically that no Iraq-style “surge” of forces will end the conflict there.

Afghanistan is not Iraq,” said Gen. David McKiernan, who led ground forces during the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in 2003 and took over four months ago as head of the NATO-led coalition in Afghanistan.
During a news conference yesterday, McKiernan described Afghanistan as “a far more complex environment than I ever found in Iraq.” The country's mountainous terrain and rural population, its poverty and illiteracy, its 400 major tribal networks and history of civil war all make for unique challenges, he said.

“The word I don't use for Afghanistan is 'surge,' ” McKiernan emphasized, saying that what is required instead is a “sustained commitment” to a counterinsurgency effort that could last many more years and would ultimately require a political, not military, solution.

Fact Check: Did Afghan general say 'surge principle' won't work?

The Statement:
Sen. Joe Biden said at the Oct. 2 vice presidential debate that "our commanding general in Afghanistan said the surge principle in Iraq will not work in Afghanistan."

...Gen. David McKiernan, the top U.S. commander in Afghanistan, was quoted on Oct. 2 in The Washington Post as saying that "no Iraq-style 'surge' of forces will end the conflict" in Afghanistan, even though more U.S. troops are needed to take on a growing insurgency.

"Afghanistan is not Iraq," McKiernan said in Washington on Oct. 1. He also said "the word I don't use for Afghanistan is 'surge.' " He called for a "sustained commitment" leading to a political and not just a military solution.

He said Afghanistan is a "far more complex environment than I ever found in Iraq." The newspaper paraphrased him as citing the country's "unique challenges" — "the mountainous terrain, rural population, poverty, illiteracy, 400 major tribal networks and history of civil war."

The Verdict: True.

Why Joe Biden won the debate
By Yael T. Abouhalkah, Kansas City Star Editorial Page columnist

The morning after, it's even easier to see exactly how Joe Biden won Thursday's debate -- and precisely how Sarah Palin faltered.

The highlights:

...Mr. Biden directly challenged Ms. Palin’s debate prep on Afghanistan — pointing out that the commander there had disagreed with Mr. McCain’s call for an Iraq-style “surge” in Afghanistan. Ms. Palin tried to contradict him, but the most memorable part of her answer was that she got the general’s name wrong...

Make no mistake, the Afghanistan point Biden made was no small, tiny, or winking matter. The news was current to that day.

What was striking upon further review, Palin obviously knew part of what had been said in the news of the morning because in her response to Biden, claiming he was wrong, and mistating McKiernan's name as McClellan, she used particular wording which showed she'd heard something about McKiernan's statements before the debate.

But she got it wrong. And she stood by her version of what McKiernan (got his name wrong) said, in denial to truth.

Palin’s Call for “Surge” in Afghanistan Contradicts Commander McKiernan (Not McClellan)

Here's the potential reason Palin had a blackout of the truth. McCain wants it to be so. She wants it to be so. Both desire a 'surge' approach in Iran...

Notice Date

Why an Iraq-style surge won't work in Afghanistan.

Posted: September 19th, 2008, 9:30pm CEST
Republican presidential candidate John McCain said in a speech last July, "It is precisely the success of the surge in Iraq that shows us the way to succeed in Afghanistan."

Top U.S. general in Afghanistan disagrees with McCain: “The word I don’t use for Afghanistan is ‘surge.’”»

In last Friday’s presidential debate, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) said that “the same strategy” that Gen. David Petraeus implemented in Iraq is “going to have to be employed in Afghanistan.” But McCain’s claim was undercut yesterday when Gen. David D. McKiernan, the new top U.S. commander in Afghanistan, “stated emphatically that no Iraq-style “surge” of forces will end the conflict there“:...

...UpdateIn July, McCain called for a "surge" in Afghanistan.

UpdateIn her interview with CBS News' Katie Couric, McCain's running mate, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, declared that "a surge in Afghanistan also will lead us to victory there, as it has proven to have done in Iraq."...

This is an important matter. "I'm right, I'm right," really I am, wink, wink, wink.

Somehow we don't think those independents who realize the VP is a heartbeat away from the Presidency (should a third party candidate not be their ballot choice) will select Palin - folksly, talking down to a third-grader's level, and inaccurate on a military matter of enormous consequence - a winker throughout real negotiations - over Biden who - hair of gray all in place - had an obvious ability to look stern at times and measured and cool at other appropriate times.

Palin winked and over gushed folksiness throughout.

On the surface, of course, Palin met an experienced Biden with an appearance of substance.

But look just a bit only a bit beneath the surface and Palin was like a recalcitrant child. At an early point in the debate Palin stated she wouldn't be answering a certain question put to her by stating she wouldn't answer the way a moderator or anyone else wanted but she would look the American public right in the eye and tell them her track record.

Well wouldn't we all just like to make up the questions we want to answer as we go along and then blame the media for our not answering because gosh gee the media might actually report what you said exactly and a comedy outfit might make fun of what we said?

Her track record if one packed with experience necessary to be President of the U.S. should include an ability to answer fully any question put to her or anybody else. No matter if a "voter, a constitutent" asked the question about Pakistan, or a youtube interviewer, or Couric, or Gibson, or Ifill.

It would be surprising if thinking Republicans fell for what they've been offered in the way of two winkers.

Many may pull away after dismissing the surface appearance and focusing on the guts and bones of Sarah Palin. they've already done in some measure with John McCain. they're more enthused with Palin than McCain, and that speaks volumes.

Independents have apparently not moved towards John McCain the day after his VP pick's heightened voice appeals to voters.

In point of fact, and an interesting happening as the debate opened, the McCain campaign actually pulled out of Michigan, defeated before Election Day by observing polls were overwhelmingly moving in the direction of Barack Obama and Joe Biden.

The same may happen in Pennsylvania where Obama/Biden are seeing numbers not only blow in the wind their way, but tornado their way, pulling in not only former Hillary Clinton supporters, and newcomers to the election process, but independents who in PA could mean the difference between winning and losing.

Looking under the surface presentation of Sarah Palin, one has to focus more in-depth on her misstatement concerning Biden's point about use of a "surge" approach in Afghanistan.

That's one fact check of such grave importance to all that the correct answer should have been the headlines in every newspaper across this nation.

Biden's reference to advice not to use Iraq-style surge in Afghanistan: True.

But it wasn't and it wasn't because print news wants to live for another day. They don't want to be replaced by any of us here on the Internet poking and dragging out the truth when we can find it.

Our headline would read No Iraq-style surge in Afghanistan Biden in the know but we've tacked on what we did to draw in independents.

Like us.

Net the Truth Online

In the debate, Joe Biden said that the commander in Afghanistan?
said that an Iraq-style “surge” would not work in Afghanistan. Palin said that Biden was wrong and that the commander did not say this.

who was right????

General: Iraq-style surge won't work in Afghanistan

By Ann Scott Tyson

October 2, 2008

Friday October 3, 2008 10:03 EDT
How Sarah Palin blew it

Sarah Palin exceeds expectations -- and still loses
Debating Joe Biden, Palin avoids another train wreck, delivering Republican talking points with robotic determination. But she also fails to convince undecided voters to stop their movement toward Obama.

By Mike Madden

Friday October 3, 2008 10:03 EDT
How Sarah Palin blew it


....I think the pundits will call for Palin, but independant voters will not like the way she ducked the economic questions. People's 401Ks are getting hurt- they don't care about gay marriage or "aw ahucks". Make the financial bleeding stop. Neither convinced me on the economics, but Biden came closer.

Biden is correct- the vice president is a part of the executive branch, and only votes if the Senate is in tie. For Constitutional literalists and libertarians, Palin blew it. Biden blew it with the "timetable" talk, but he is right that we can not gives troops to Afghanistan until we get them out of Iraq. She blew the numbers question- we still have 15 brigades, but we have more support troops and MPs in Iraq, so we are not at pre-surge troop levels.

I just came out thinking that she was vicious. That's not good for her in my small town....

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