The CNN Democratic presidential debate in Texas
Supporters are touting her closing comment - her best moment was her final moment?
What debate did those people watch? Surely not the one where Clinton was actually booed for not just continuing the "plagiarism" claim, but continuing the "plagiarism" claim AFTER Obama - sitting right next to her - had just finished giving a definitive and short explanation of how his use of Deval Patrick's words came about. Obama then went on to turn his response to issues.
BROWN: I think one of the points -- I think one of the points that John King was alluding to in talking about some of Senator Clinton's comments is there has been a lot of attention lately on some of your speeches, that they are very similar to some of the speeches by your friend and supporter Deval Patrick, the governor of Massachusetts, and Senator Clinton's campaign has made a big issue of this. To be blunt, they've accused you of plagiarism.
OBAMA: Right.
BROWN: How do you respond?
OBAMA: Well, look, the -- first of all, it's not a lot of speeches. There are two lines in speeches that I've been giving over the last couple of weeks.
I've been campaigning now for the last two years. Deval is a national co-chairman of my campaign, and suggested an argument that I share, that words are important. Words matter. And the implication that they don't I think diminishes how important it is to speak to the American people directly about making America as good as its promise. Barbara Jordan understood this as well as anybody.
OBAMA: And the notion that I had plagiarized from somebody who was one of my national co-chairs... who gave me the line and suggested that I use it, I think, is silly, and...you know, this is where we start getting into silly season, in politics, and I think people start getting discouraged about it...
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/21/debate.transcript/index.html
What is there not to understand? Patrick gave him permission to use the gist of his words. We show Obama didn't use the entirety of Patrick's passage anyway.
Yet Hillary Clinton could not stop herself from the first worst moment of her career-path. The second worst moment came at the end of the debate in her final comment.
She not only continued the refrain of plagiarism, choosing the wording - "lifting whole passages," she actually pointed to You Tube's side by side videos as proof.
Did she actually watch the videos? Did she listen to his explanation, given moments earlier? Apparently not.
Well, I think that if your candidacy is going to be about words, then they should be your own words. That's, I think, a very simple proposition. And, you know, lifting whole passages from someone else's speeches is not change you can believe in, it's change you can Xerox. And I just don't think...
Obama interjected: Come on
Then instead of stopping when she was ahead in the game, because people had applauded her remarks, she went on and said: you know, but Barack, it is.
At that point, if you listen and watch the video, there was a distinctive booing from the Democrat crowd, which moments earlier had applauded her.
Note: The CNN Transcript does not insert (Booing) the transcript only inserts APPLAUSE!
No, but, you know, but, Barack, it is.
Because, you know, if you look -- if you look -- if you look at the YouTube of these videos, it does raise questions...
Coverage elsewhere hones in on the exchanges on health care, illegal immigration, and the position changes by both on the construction of a border fence to help curb illegal immigration.
Eleanor Clift on MSNBC this afternoon says Clinton's ending remarks sounded "valedictory."
Clift wrote:
Politics on Trial
What will really matter, come November?
Feb 22, 2008 Updated: 2:02 p.m. ET Feb 22, 2008
...In Thursday night's Democratic debate, Barack Obama batted away Hillary's charge that he had committed plagiarism by borrowing lines about how words matter from his friend and campaign co-chairman, Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick. Obama called it the "silly season" when candidates go after each other on these non-issues. The audience booed Hillary, a low moment for her in a debate where she otherwise shined and delivered an exceptionally moving closing statement that sounded almost like a valedictory. She may not have altered the trajectory of the race, but she seems to understand that more than her candidacy is at stake, and that our whole way of doing politics is on trial in this election season...
http://www.newsweek.com/id/114526
What debate did AP's Beth Fouhy view?
Analysis: Clinton Chooses Graciousness
Last Edited: Friday, 22 Feb 2008, 8:16 AM EST Created: Friday, 22 Feb 2008, 8:16 AM EST By BETH FOUHY Associated Press Writer
Charges of plagiarism are Clinton choosing graciousness? Clinton uttered one complimentary remark - at the end -
Clinton's final lines were outed by some commentators as heard before and similar to if not the exact words of John Edwards during a speech, later determined his concession speech.
Just before Clinton made those comments, however, she said:
And, you know, no matter what happens in this contest -- and I am honored, I am honored to be here with Barack Obama. I am absolutely honored.
The CNN Transcript at this point says Applause, but there was more, Barack Obama reached over at just that point, and he extended his hand, and shook hers.
The look on her face meant only one thing - she had to be thinking - what did I just say? I'm honored to be here with Barack Obama... absolutely honored.
Her hidden thoughts must have been - this guy has what it takes. That's what I just let slip.
She went on with slight pause, and said:
CLINTON: Whatever happens, we're going to be fine. You know, we have strong support from our families and our friends. I just hope that we'll be able to say the same thing about the American people, and that's what this election should be about.
Watch how Hillary Clinton's entire demeanor changes after she says she's honored, absolutely honored to be here with Barack Obama, and Obama leans over toward her, and shakes her hand.
this report is simply wrong: she said, as the two leaned toward each other and shook hands.
Clinton didn't inititate the handshake, Obama did. Why the spin?
She made that comment just prior to delivering the additional remark. The lines Democrat pundits and commentators appearing on CNN and on MSNBC after the debate have said was previously made by John Edwards.
The site says the Obama campaign is putting out the info...
Soundbites You Can Xerox
The Obama campaign has sent out this spin on Clinton’s closing lines of the debate:
http://ruralvotes.com/thefield/?p=710
The key point isn't that Clinton may have used Edwards' words, but that just before she uttered them, she said she was honored, absolutely honored to be here with Barack Obama.
MSNBC's Keith Obermann noted her effort in the last segment, looked conciliatory...
We agree. Hillary Clinton had met more than her match. She had met the first African-American person, who happens to be a man, who could well be the next President of the United States of America.
His handshake to her despite all that she had said before then and up to then revealed he can be everything a President should be.
The fact wasn't lost on Hillary Clinton. She looked awed. Like the schoolgirl kid.
(Net the Truth Online)(February 22, 2008)(with updated material posting as Citizen Investigator Anonymous)
More viewpoints and coverage
See many other posts now reflect her comments as "conciliatory."
Saving the Best for Last
By Jonathan Weisman
The debate in Austin veered from cordial to contentious, then back to cordial, but Hillary Rodham Clinton saved perhaps her best, warmest moment for last...
washington Post blog Posted at 10:02 PM ET on Feb 21, 2008
Interesting, especially considering the Clinton's team plagiarism argument . . .
John Edwards [Democratic Debate, 12/13/07]: What's not at stake are any of us. All of us are going to be just fine no matter what happens in this election. But what's at stake is whether America is going to be fine.
John Edwards [Edwards Speech, 1/30/08]: I want to say this to everyone: with Elizabeth, with my family, with my friends, with all of you and all of your support, this son of a millworker's gonna be just fine. Our job now is to make certain that America will be fine.
Posted by: gnR8NnXt | February 21, 2008 10:39 PM
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/02/21/saving_the_best_for_last.html
Cites three incidences of similarity pre-debate
Hillary Clinton, last night:
“You know, the hits I’ve taken in life are nothing compared to what goes on every single day in the lives of people across our country.”
John Edwards, December 13th:
What’s not at stake are any of us. All of us are going to be just fine no matter what happens in this election. But what’s at stake is whether America is going to be fine.
Jack Stanton, fictional character in Primary Colors, 1996:
“Y’know, I’ve taken some hits in this campaign. It hasn’t been easy for me, or my family. It hasn’t been fair, but it hasn’t been anything compared to the hits a lot of you take every day.”
Bill Clinton, 1992:
“The hits that I took in this election are nothing compared to the hits the people of this state and this country have been taking for a long time.”
http://www.balloon-juice.com/?cat=56
Democratic Debate: Plagiarism - Hillary Tries To Frame The Debate
By: Logan Murphy on Thursday, February 21st, 2008
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/02/21/democratic-debate-plagiarism-hillary-tries-to-frame-the-debate/
Clinton accuses Obama of political plagiarism by DAVID ESPO
AP Special Correspondent
Friday, February 22, 2008
AUSTIN, Texas -- Hillary Rodham Clinton accused presidential rival Barack Obama of political plagiarism Thursday night, but drew boos from a Democratic debate audience when she ridiculed him as the candidate of "change you can Xerox."
Obama dismissed the charge out of hand, then turned the jeers to applause when he countered, "What we shouldn't be spending time doing is tearing each other down. We should be spending time lifting the country up."
The exchange marked an unusually pointed moment in an otherwise civil encounter in the days before March 4 primaries in Texas and Ohio -- contests that even some of Clinton's supporters say she must win to sustain her campaign for the White House.
The former first lady has lost 11 straight primaries and caucuses, and trails her rival in convention delegates. Obama has won a pair of big union endorsements in the past two days...
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/breaking/s_553750.html
OK, HILLARY, LET'S TALK ABOUT PLAGIARISM
Posted February 22, 2008 | 09:01 PM (EST)
James Heffernan
...Apart from the two-word phrase, "just words," all the other "plagiarized" words that Obama used come from QUOTATIONS that Patrick himself used without acknowledgement. The act of quoting cannot be plagiarized. If you quote from Lincoln in a speech, book, or article, I can legitimately use the same quotation without mentioning you. And no one owns a rhetorical technique. If Deval Patrick can expose the fallacy of thinking that all words are "just words" by quoting words that resonate for all of us, so can Obama.
And so I ask you, Senator: do you really think "plagiarism" is a just word for what Obama did?...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-heffernan/ok-hillary-lets-talk-a_b_88081.html
Transcript Complete debate transcript via MSNBC Published Tue, Jan 15, 2008 (7:06 p.m.) Updated Tue, Jan 15, 2008 (7:49 p.m.)
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2008/jan/15/debate-transcript/
Ralph Muckhockey, on February 21st, 2008 at 8:49 pm Said:
MSNBC Keith Obeeeerrrrmannnn plugged Politico.com for catching the pesudo plagerism
http://ruralvotes.com/thefield/?p=710
Post made as Citizen Investigator Anonymous
Wonderful moment? A genuine moment of warmth? Excuse for not citing who said which here, not plagiarizing as there's a question mark after.
No way. Look at the precise comment Hillary made just prior to the Edwards' borrow or rather "the pesudo plagerism" (Ralph Muckhockey)
"And, you know, no matter what happens in this contest -- and I am honored, I am honored to be here with Barack Obama. I am absolutely honored."
The moment Clinton said that, Barack Obama reached over to her and extended his hand in a handshake.
At that point in time, Hillary Clinton looked like the schoolgirl kid, not the comeback kid 2.
She looked absolutely in awe, and she knew then she was exposed.
Keith Obermann on Countdown commented on the "finality" of her remarks - they appeared to him to look conciliatory.
Recall, Bill Clinton warned if Hillary doesn't win Texas, Ohio, what would happen.
The plagiarism issue was settled just moments before Clinton was asked about it during the debate.
Obama clearly outlined Deval Patrick is a co-chair of his campaign but if you dissect what he said, he was honing in on what kind of people make such charges.
"I've been campaigning now for the last two years. Deval is a national co-chairman of my campaign, and suggested an argument that I share, that words are important. Words matter.
And the implication that they don't I think diminishes how important it is to speak to the American people directly about making America as good as its promise.
Barbara Jordan understood this as well as anybody."
His use of Deval's "argument" the "Just Words" argument was a necessary one in the face of implications that words don't matter.
Not only do words have power, words have effective power. That's why Obama chose the resource he had at hand (Patrick's argument). He chose to use the argument against implications his speaking of words - are empty and therefore every idea he is presenting doesn't matter.
Hillary, though sitting right beside him, didn't hear any of what he was saying, or didn't comprehend, or simply couldn't accept he and Patrick had basically caught the Clintons at their games. My thinking is there is far deeper motivation for Hillary to continue with the plagiarism charge, and she may continue after she's re-conditioned.
Obama Plagiarism Charge Motivated by Snub?
http://netthetruthonline.blogspot.com/2008/02/obama-plagiarism-charge-motivated-by.html
The psychological warfare as observed by Carl Bernstein conducted by the Clintons against Obama is getting to be too much of a strain for her.
http://netthetruthonline.blogspot.com/2008/02/carl-bernstein-psychological-warfare.html
Loved the outfit she wore, by the way, nice "framing" of her face.
The booing was absolutely and totally unexpected to her. Moments before if you listen and watch the video of the debate, the audience actually applauded her.
She did not expect boos to drown out any further potential applause to her charges which she continued even after Obama said, "Come on."
She was in a trance-like state when she said after that:
"No, but, you know, but, Barack, it is."
(This was the point when the boos reigned freely)
Because, you know, if you look -- if you look -- if you look at the YouTube of these videos, it does raise questions."
Anyone who does any public speaking knows when you hear a boo from your audience, you stop, that's why she stuttered, repeated, and brought in You Tube, a play to those remaining behind her on the issue her campaign manufactured. But they didn't clap.
Her observance no clapping - change - which she did to health care.
Thereafter though, she must have been apprising exactly how Presidential Obama was looking in comparison to her.
By the end, she wasn't revealing a moment of "warmth" she was showing she couldn't help but succumb to Obama.
Her final words were in fact:
"And, you know, no matter what happens in this contest -- and I am honored, I am honored to be here with Barack Obama. I am absolutely honored."
The rest was an afterthought to recompose herself. That's why she had to "pseudo plagiarize."
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