Fayette commissioners hosted their own voting machine vendor fair in hopes of moving quickly on a plan to acquire additional electronic machines for the Primary 2008 Election to take place April 22 in Pennsylvania.
The county's last cycle of elections met with long lines, hour-plus waits, with the reported result in several precincts of voters actually leaving the polling place before voting. The 2007 municipal races included seating a new Administration of the board of county commissioners.
Incumbents Republican Angela Zimmerlink and Democrat Vincent Vicites were joined by Vincent Zapotosky, a Democrat, after November elections.
Complaints about the backups in the precincts arose last Spring. Much of the criticism centered on the exclusive use of the direct recording electronic voting machines, eSlates, which may have hindered voters unfamiliar with technology advances.
Commissioners were encouraged by local concerned citizens to adopt the paper ballot with scanners, as a choice for voters at the polling place, in conjunction with the accessible direct recording electronic eSlates.
Local talk radio programming featured a litany of complaints over the couple of months spanning the municipal primary election and the general election.
Several callers to WMBS 590, including ours, urged the new administration of commissioners to consider implementing the eScans, Hart InterCivic's paper ballot based voting system.
During a regular board meeting held last week, a measure on the agenda to acquire additional eSlates failed to garner a second vote.
On the motion of Commissioner Vincent Vicites, and seconded by Chairman Vincent Zapotosky, with Commissioner Zimmerlink voting no, the board opted instead to work on formulation of a plan which would include the eScans. Funding concerns were discussed, as were potential for delivery in time for the Primary Election.
In subsequent news articles, reports reflect Zimmerlink's nay vote doesn't preclude her looking into alternate voting systems.
At the Thursday demonstration session, Adrian Gonzales, of Hart Intercivic, reviewed the eScan - with officials, election employees, the county's election technicians, and director.
The demonstration included attempting to mark more choices than were permitted to see what would happen. A message on the unit's screen notified the user of an over-vote.
Gonzales explained the county could choose to set the system to reject the over-votes, and reject a completely blank ballot, and the polling place official would have to be notified by the voter when encountering those rejections.
The system could be set to likewise allow an under-voted ballot which wasn't completely blank. The system could permit for all of those instances, but the voter would still be notified by the screen's message of an over-vote or improperly marked ballot. A help button is also available for the voter to call a pollworker.
Both commissioners noted including the paper ballot system would be a good move for the county for a variety of reasons. Among reasons is the future status of the direct recording without paper.
State representative Timothy Mahoney was present. He may be contacted in the future concerning state measures which could be taken to ensure the direct recording electronic machines used in many counties across the state produce a "voter verified paper audit trail."
The eScans would be placed at each polling precinct along with the accessible direct recording eSlates.
Commissioner Vicites said the use of the eScans could solve the problems experienced in the last elections, and improve the process for the voters. He said he's had input from senior citizens and all age groups have had various comments. Regarding accessibility of the eSlates and use of a paper ballot with scanner, Vicites said, "the dual system satisfies both aspects of the voting process."
Vicites said the county had a $170,000 base from which to work, but some over $1 million had already been used from Help America Vote Act funding for the current voting system. $500,000 from a 2006 earmark had not been applied to the county voting system when the HAVA funding came through. That money is no longer available, Vicites said.
"What value can you put on the voting process," Vicites said.
Vicites indicated a reserve fund could be an option.
Vincent Zapotosky enlisted Gonzales to review the protections in the system to aide the voter to cast the ballot as the voter wanted.
He said there's the simplicity of the paper ballot and the technology with the features notifying of the over-votes, or if the voter wants to change an under-voted ballot.
Zapotosky said the system allows a tangible piece of paper to be voted on and the votes recorded on it.
He expressed Pennsylvania's role in the Presidential Primary could be crucial and a turning point for candidates in that process, and hoped for an adequate way with this system to encourage voter participation.
Director Laurie Lint noted the absentee ballots have to be handled separately per Pennsylvania election law and there would also be a separate report for write-ins.
At least 103 of the units will be placed in the local precincts.
Commissioners will advertise a special meeting to be held next Wednesday to consider acquisition of the paper ballot scanners, and financing details.
Gonzales assured the group if official action were taken at that time, the array of eScans would be delivered in time for the April 22 Primary Election.
The public will have opportunity to view the eScans at the to-be-scheduled meeting, and during regular operating hours of the Election Bureau located in Uniontown at the Public Service Building, 22 East Main Street. (Across from the State Theatre)
Previous Posts
Monday, January 28, 2008
County Faces Costs Scanner Paper Ballots Voting System
http://netthetruthonline.blogspot.com/search?q=fayette+voting
Friday, January 25, 2008
VotePA Weighs in on Talk program paper ballots
http://netthetruthonline.blogspot.com/2008/01/votepa-weighs-in-on-talk-program-paper.html
Thursday, January 24, 2008
Fayette to add precinct paper ballot optical scans
http://netthetruthonline.blogspot.com/2008/01/fayette-to-add-precinct-paper-ballot.html
Tuesday, January 22, 2008
Fayette Voting System
http://netthetruthonline.blogspot.com/2008/01/fayette-voting-system.html
Tuesday, January 15, 2008
Citizen Power Needed PA Counties Demand Paper Ballot Optical Scan
http://netthetruthonline.blogspot.com/2008/01/citizen-power-needed-pa-counties-demand.html
See Sidebar for links
Paper-less Veto Your Vote
Election Info Watch
Voting Related Issues
Thursday, January 31, 2008
PA Constitutional Convention: Fumo: Controversial
PCN featured two PA state senators on its programming discussing a variety of issues. A caller asked if the state should have a PA Constitutional Convention.
Sen. Jeffrey Piccola said he'd held a hearing last year on such a proposal. Many of the issues that arose changing the size of the state legislature, and a variety of process issues are not going to get done unless we have a convention. Sen Piccola said he is going to put in a proposal to call of convention. He doesn't think it will go anywhere.
Senator Vincent Fumo, said he's unsure about a convention since many concerned citizens have a dispute we will we retain the same rights we have, so there is controversy.
Sen. Jeffrey Piccola said he'd held a hearing last year on such a proposal. Many of the issues that arose changing the size of the state legislature, and a variety of process issues are not going to get done unless we have a convention. Sen Piccola said he is going to put in a proposal to call of convention. He doesn't think it will go anywhere.
Senator Vincent Fumo, said he's unsure about a convention since many concerned citizens have a dispute we will we retain the same rights we have, so there is controversy.
PA: Stall on Property Tax Shifting Right Direction
Exactly what should have been done - shelve the tax-shifting plan called school property tax "reform." During PCN live coverage of the state House debating Rep. Sam Rohrer, R-Berks County proposition, a fellow Republican stumped the sponsor of the bill on some key but little noticed effects the legislation might have.
Asked about different scenarios applying to the status of the self-employed who might seek the advice of counsel regarding setting up a business, Rep. Rohrer was hard-pressed to be able to come up with definite answers.
Right there, when the legislation's sponsor can't adequately answer a series of intricate questions about his/her bill, it's time to can the bill.
http://www.pcntv.com/#
Asked about different scenarios applying to the status of the self-employed who might seek the advice of counsel regarding setting up a business, Rep. Rohrer was hard-pressed to be able to come up with definite answers.
Right there, when the legislation's sponsor can't adequately answer a series of intricate questions about his/her bill, it's time to can the bill.
http://www.pcntv.com/#
State House halts plan to nix property taxes
By Brad Bumsted
STATE CAPITOL REPORTER
Thursday, January 31, 2008
HARRISBURG -- House Democrats on Wednesday temporarily shelved a plan that would eliminate school property taxes and give the Legislature two years to come up with a funding solution.
"We're going to pull back and focus on negotiations with Republicans who want to get something done on property taxes," said House Democratic Policy Chairman Todd Eachus, a Luzerne County Democrat. The House recessed for the remainder of the week and will try to forge a deal next week.
Whether a replacement for property taxes is identified now or in a few years, the change will likely be a shift to sales and income taxes, said former Allegheny County Chief Executive Jim Roddey.
"We won't get (total) relief for taxpayers. We might get a shift in taxes," he said.
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribunereview/news/state/s_550101.html
Wednesday, January 30, 2008
Election Integrity Radio Talk
Listened to the program. Was turned off only when a caller posed that paper ballots should be hand-counted. Believe me, none of these counties pollworkers want to go back to hand-counting. Plus, there is no notification of over-votes unless you run the paper ballot through a scanner. Look what happened in New Hampshire. The machines provided the correct count and the officials made errors which would have gone un-noticed if there had not been a Kucinich request for a state-wide recount. We have yet to hear how the Republican recount is going.
Voice of the Voters
Discussing the new Holt bill H.B. 3056
Susan talking about New Hampshire, wondering whether the election isn't run by organized crime. Look at Bev Harris website Black Box Voting, monitoring the chain of custody by video... mnetions her organization's website
http://www.floridafairelections.org
Next Harvey Brankston report on Colorado elections. Court case conroy vs dennis proves voting machines not properly tested, was a decertification... HB 1165 reconsider decercification... amendment proposed sunset clause... machines may be used into the future if the amendment doesn't pass
cfvi.org
Jason Osgood state of Washington report on King County...
recklessplan.org
Jeremy Epstein www.vvcva.org
PA Madeline Rawley mentions Jan. 8 NYTimes cover voting booth exploding... next eruption of voting machine scandal Pennsylvania, at first the writer was talking about Central County, with the ivotronics... cannot do a recount without a voter paper marked ballot...
not able to wake anybody else up. Legislation has gone absolutely nowhere in PA...
PA reports Alan Brau discussed Northampton County
Marian Schneider discussed 3 counties in Pennsylvania where WinVote decertified, purchasing replacements, injunction sought by group prevent purchase paperless DREs...
Ohio Paddy Shaffer discussed Project Everest and more
electiondefensealliance.org/oejc
http://www.progressohio.org/page/community/post/paddyshaffer/C3NW
Next guest Alysoun McLaughlin of the National Association of Counties
election officials walking on eggshells trying to do difficult job since Presidential election 2000... need to break down the walls more and work through issues where people disagree and focus on both those who run elections and those on outside are struggling...
Seriously, what did McLaughlin say there? Nothing...
What are some of biggest issues need to work out?
All of the issues they highlighted are issues county officials are right in middle of, not properly certified... worried equipment not ready for prime time... high tech options pushed... pressure report on election night... no time do audit after the election... election officials in firing line of trying to do what is forced onto them...
She needs to stay away from speaking about particular situations and relationships. Have dialogue. Among the people who have the biggest frustrations, not hearing of good working relationships. Situations where concerns about technology is changing.
Concerns county officials have are the mandates that came out of the Help America Vote Act. Required those standards be issued Jan. 2006. Worked to get deadlines pushed back with other election integrity orgs, weren't successful, still in same situation. The process to develop voting standards really hasn't happened yet, they're in draft form.
Asked about her position on DREs (paperless)
NACO agnostic on voting equipment and procedures, leave those decisions up to local jurisdictions. There ought to be federal standards, testing and certification before counties are forced into these.
Voice of Voter: Study after study showing both types are fatally flawed, the DREs are much more flawed and not ready for prime time.
What we haven't had are good studies that show the systems that do work, says NACO's Alysoun... there's no voting system you could buy where some advocacy group isn't objecting.
Voice of Voter: concerned, of the opinion DREs have to be removed.
NACO advantages to DREs and then if you have the paper ballot vulnerabilities there being destroyed, ruined, you have that backup too. Both have vulnerabilities. Easier to get to the paper ballot than it is to get to the electronic record, says Alysoun.
Voice of Voter: What's position on Holt Bill
NACO work with that bill, the most efficient way is to have demo grants and get the money out there before you begin mandating. Neutral on what technologies counties should buy. Questions from counties about the resources. Lot of jurisdictions would opt in if they knew the money were coming.
Richard King: hoping can interest her to write a letter to congressional committees given job of reviewing 5036 and urging committees to move forward to getting that out of committee because there are counties that would opt to have the paper ballots and audits for November Presidential election. Is it possible for NACO to write a letter to move that out of committees.
Voice of Voters 5036 is critical.
Ellen: wondering if any counties, small counties, are considering possibility of going back to hand-counting paper ballots rather than using technology at all?
Kathy Dobb asks about HR 5036
NACO: working with the committee and on HR 811 unfunded mandate and requires technology not available around the country.
Ian Sancho Florida: record turnout, more votes tallied for presidential candidates than before. Concern is can NACO suggest affirmative changes to this process they would like to see in the counties. There's a stalmate currently and nothing is going to happen at the national level. There are no perfect voting systems out there, but status quo out there Americans are going to lose credibility... corrosive effect on voters.
NACO agrees fully the situation unacceptable. So much money rushing into implementation of technology without the certifications. do more to id the practices that work well across the country. Lobbies on policies and votes the members take. Careful about choosing one technology over another. It's about the federal process, getting the money out there, but providing the service free of charge for the federal government for 200 years.
Sancho gave some details about Florida unsure what he said.
Victoria concerns allow DREs with VVPATs
NACO members in Ohio want to apply for the money.
Voice of Voters Holt bill doesn't apply to acquiring VVPATs for DREs.
John Gideon: news articles in Florida problems in primary noticed Volusia County would have to recount ballots from early voting where they'd counted 4 less ballots than voters signed in to vote. An advisory sent out by Premier that there was a problem with the machines and told the counties what to do. Got a copy of that advisory. Susan got a copy of it. Only sent to Florida counties. Also used in Northeast and Illinois. Call to find if anyone else had seen this advisory. Nobody else has seen this advisory except florida counties. Voters United has concerns with EAC to serve as national clearinghouse, they should be putting out this info to election officials in all counties.
Resource: Early Vote Discrepancy Prompts Recount; Ballots Manually Refed POSTED: 12:20 pm EST January 29, 2008 UPDATED: 12:44 pm EST January 29, 2008
http://www.local6.com/news/15165081/detail.html
NACO response: broad agreement between county commissioners and supervisors and election integrity movement - not enough the EAC is doing. When county commissioner or election official sees that they ask the same questions you ask. Direction to make more info available and elected feel the same.
Jim Strait: what about a paper based system standardized
NACO: Optical scan format pretty good format building things that work is a good idea. First caution against standarization it doesn't work in a lot of places. Mentions the automark works for some but some have had complaints. Her approach is to build a menu of systems that works and have different choices.
Bucks County Commissioner Diane what is going to happen PA is going to be an integral part in election a swing state and in roll present the country with making sure every vote is counted. Bucks uses Danaher which has been decertified, wants a system with a paper verified with the optical scan.
Voice of Voters: HR 5036 will replace with optical scan and paper ballots.
Diane fellow commissioners considering whether will sign a letter to support that bill. She is supportive of it.
Voice of Voter: Who owns electec?
Voice of the Voters
Discussing the new Holt bill H.B. 3056
Susan talking about New Hampshire, wondering whether the election isn't run by organized crime. Look at Bev Harris website Black Box Voting, monitoring the chain of custody by video... mnetions her organization's website
http://www.floridafairelections.org
Next Harvey Brankston report on Colorado elections. Court case conroy vs dennis proves voting machines not properly tested, was a decertification... HB 1165 reconsider decercification... amendment proposed sunset clause... machines may be used into the future if the amendment doesn't pass
cfvi.org
Jason Osgood state of Washington report on King County...
recklessplan.org
Jeremy Epstein www.vvcva.org
PA Madeline Rawley mentions Jan. 8 NYTimes cover voting booth exploding... next eruption of voting machine scandal Pennsylvania, at first the writer was talking about Central County, with the ivotronics... cannot do a recount without a voter paper marked ballot...
not able to wake anybody else up. Legislation has gone absolutely nowhere in PA...
PA reports Alan Brau discussed Northampton County
Marian Schneider discussed 3 counties in Pennsylvania where WinVote decertified, purchasing replacements, injunction sought by group prevent purchase paperless DREs...
Ohio Paddy Shaffer discussed Project Everest and more
electiondefensealliance.org/oejc
http://www.progressohio.org/page/community/post/paddyshaffer/C3NW
Next guest Alysoun McLaughlin of the National Association of Counties
election officials walking on eggshells trying to do difficult job since Presidential election 2000... need to break down the walls more and work through issues where people disagree and focus on both those who run elections and those on outside are struggling...
Seriously, what did McLaughlin say there? Nothing...
What are some of biggest issues need to work out?
All of the issues they highlighted are issues county officials are right in middle of, not properly certified... worried equipment not ready for prime time... high tech options pushed... pressure report on election night... no time do audit after the election... election officials in firing line of trying to do what is forced onto them...
She needs to stay away from speaking about particular situations and relationships. Have dialogue. Among the people who have the biggest frustrations, not hearing of good working relationships. Situations where concerns about technology is changing.
Concerns county officials have are the mandates that came out of the Help America Vote Act. Required those standards be issued Jan. 2006. Worked to get deadlines pushed back with other election integrity orgs, weren't successful, still in same situation. The process to develop voting standards really hasn't happened yet, they're in draft form.
Asked about her position on DREs (paperless)
NACO agnostic on voting equipment and procedures, leave those decisions up to local jurisdictions. There ought to be federal standards, testing and certification before counties are forced into these.
Voice of Voter: Study after study showing both types are fatally flawed, the DREs are much more flawed and not ready for prime time.
What we haven't had are good studies that show the systems that do work, says NACO's Alysoun... there's no voting system you could buy where some advocacy group isn't objecting.
Voice of Voter: concerned, of the opinion DREs have to be removed.
NACO advantages to DREs and then if you have the paper ballot vulnerabilities there being destroyed, ruined, you have that backup too. Both have vulnerabilities. Easier to get to the paper ballot than it is to get to the electronic record, says Alysoun.
Voice of Voter: What's position on Holt Bill
NACO work with that bill, the most efficient way is to have demo grants and get the money out there before you begin mandating. Neutral on what technologies counties should buy. Questions from counties about the resources. Lot of jurisdictions would opt in if they knew the money were coming.
Richard King: hoping can interest her to write a letter to congressional committees given job of reviewing 5036 and urging committees to move forward to getting that out of committee because there are counties that would opt to have the paper ballots and audits for November Presidential election. Is it possible for NACO to write a letter to move that out of committees.
Voice of Voters 5036 is critical.
Ellen: wondering if any counties, small counties, are considering possibility of going back to hand-counting paper ballots rather than using technology at all?
Kathy Dobb asks about HR 5036
NACO: working with the committee and on HR 811 unfunded mandate and requires technology not available around the country.
Ian Sancho Florida: record turnout, more votes tallied for presidential candidates than before. Concern is can NACO suggest affirmative changes to this process they would like to see in the counties. There's a stalmate currently and nothing is going to happen at the national level. There are no perfect voting systems out there, but status quo out there Americans are going to lose credibility... corrosive effect on voters.
NACO agrees fully the situation unacceptable. So much money rushing into implementation of technology without the certifications. do more to id the practices that work well across the country. Lobbies on policies and votes the members take. Careful about choosing one technology over another. It's about the federal process, getting the money out there, but providing the service free of charge for the federal government for 200 years.
Sancho gave some details about Florida unsure what he said.
Victoria concerns allow DREs with VVPATs
NACO members in Ohio want to apply for the money.
Voice of Voters Holt bill doesn't apply to acquiring VVPATs for DREs.
John Gideon: news articles in Florida problems in primary noticed Volusia County would have to recount ballots from early voting where they'd counted 4 less ballots than voters signed in to vote. An advisory sent out by Premier that there was a problem with the machines and told the counties what to do. Got a copy of that advisory. Susan got a copy of it. Only sent to Florida counties. Also used in Northeast and Illinois. Call to find if anyone else had seen this advisory. Nobody else has seen this advisory except florida counties. Voters United has concerns with EAC to serve as national clearinghouse, they should be putting out this info to election officials in all counties.
Resource: Early Vote Discrepancy Prompts Recount; Ballots Manually Refed POSTED: 12:20 pm EST January 29, 2008 UPDATED: 12:44 pm EST January 29, 2008
http://www.local6.com/news/15165081/detail.html
NACO response: broad agreement between county commissioners and supervisors and election integrity movement - not enough the EAC is doing. When county commissioner or election official sees that they ask the same questions you ask. Direction to make more info available and elected feel the same.
Jim Strait: what about a paper based system standardized
NACO: Optical scan format pretty good format building things that work is a good idea. First caution against standarization it doesn't work in a lot of places. Mentions the automark works for some but some have had complaints. Her approach is to build a menu of systems that works and have different choices.
Bucks County Commissioner Diane what is going to happen PA is going to be an integral part in election a swing state and in roll present the country with making sure every vote is counted. Bucks uses Danaher which has been decertified, wants a system with a paper verified with the optical scan.
Voice of Voters: HR 5036 will replace with optical scan and paper ballots.
Diane fellow commissioners considering whether will sign a letter to support that bill. She is supportive of it.
Voice of Voter: Who owns electec?
Voice of the Voters! hosted by Mary Ann Gould, with John Gideon reporting on the week's top voting news stories.
Jan. 30: 2-Hour Voice of the Voters Special, 7-9 PM EST. First, reports from across the country, including Susan Pynchon of the Florida Fair Elections Coalition, Paddy Shaffer of the Ohio Election Justice Campaign, Brad Friedman of the BradBlog.com, and John Gideon of Voters Unite.
Hour 2: Alysoun McLaughlin of the National Association of Counties and Diane Marseglia, newly elected Bucks County Commissioner.
http://www.voiceofthevoters.org/
http://duxpond.com/wnjc/listen.html
PA Senate Open Records Measure Retroactive
According to the Patriot-News report, the Senate measure to revamp the state's public documents access law, sponsored by Senate Majority Leader Dominic Pileggi, passed 50-0. It appears that the exemptions for email communications between legislators and constituents will remain closed to access.
However, the Senate version removed the House-supported proposal that kept past records closed.
Can you believe what some will say that says nothing.
In State Senate OKs change to open records law
will actually affect real Pennsylvanians? What political gooblygock.
The Senate legislation differs from the House version with its dozens of amendments in a most major way: it will subject past records to public access as well as future records. The House version declined to give that one to "real Pennsylvanians."
We'll have to see how Rep. Sam Smith and other House members spin their non-concurrence should that happen.
Net the Truth Online
Update Jan. 31, 2008
State Senate OKs change to open records law
By The Associated Press
Thursday, January 31, 2008
HARRISBURG -- Pennsylvania's much-maligned open records law would be updated to greatly expand what people can learn about their government under a bill that unanimously passed the state Senate on Wednesday.
The Senate sent to the House the latest draft in what has been a yearlong process of revising the Right-to-Know Law. It exposes more government records to public scrutiny, including a list of legislative records and judicial financial records.
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribunereview/news/state/s_550070.html
According to the Inquirer
However, the Senate version removed the House-supported proposal that kept past records closed.
Can you believe what some will say that says nothing.
In State Senate OKs change to open records law
"We've really got to take a look at the legislation that passed the Senate -- see exactly what they did, what changes they made -- because it does affect more than just the House and Senate," said Steve Miskin, spokesman for House Minority Leader Sam Smith, R-Jefferson. "This bill will actually affect real Pennsylvanians."
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribunereview/news/state/s_550070.html
will actually affect real Pennsylvanians? What political gooblygock.
The Senate legislation differs from the House version with its dozens of amendments in a most major way: it will subject past records to public access as well as future records. The House version declined to give that one to "real Pennsylvanians."
We'll have to see how Rep. Sam Smith and other House members spin their non-concurrence should that happen.
Net the Truth Online
Update Jan. 31, 2008
State Senate OKs change to open records law
By The Associated Press
Thursday, January 31, 2008
HARRISBURG -- Pennsylvania's much-maligned open records law would be updated to greatly expand what people can learn about their government under a bill that unanimously passed the state Senate on Wednesday.
The Senate sent to the House the latest draft in what has been a yearlong process of revising the Right-to-Know Law. It exposes more government records to public scrutiny, including a list of legislative records and judicial financial records.
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribunereview/news/state/s_550070.html
The current draft removes a House-backed provision that would have prevented access to dates of birth. It also makes the law retroactive, covering existing as well as newly created records, another break from what the House had passed.
According to the Inquirer
Open-records bill passes Pa. Senate, heads to House
By Amy Worden INQUIRER HARRISBURG BUREAU Wed, Jan. 30, 2008
...the bill requires that all records be considered public unless specifically exempted under the law.
Those exemptions would include autopsy reports, investigative reports related to law enforcement, medical records, Social Security numbers, and home and personal cellular phone numbers.
Also exempted would be constituent letters to lawmakers, drafts of bills, employment applications, and grievance materials. Law enforcement agencies in counties or municipalities would make decisions regarding the availability of 911 tapes.
http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_update/20080130_State_Senate_passes_open_records_bill__goes_to_the_House_.html
Open-records revision passes state Senate
by JAN MURPHY, Of The Patriot-News
Wednesday January 30, 2008, 12:03 PM
The state Senate unanimously approved a measure today to strengthen the state's 51-year-old open records law. The measure now goes to the House for consideration.
Senate Majority Leader Dominic Pileggi, R-Delaware County, the bill's sponsor, said, "Pennsylvania needs a stronger open records law because transparency builds trust in government."
...The current draft removes a House-backed provision that would have prevented access to dates of birth. It also makes the law retroactive, covering existing as well as newly created records, another break from what the House had passed.
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2008/01/senate_passes_open_records_leg.html
PA Open Records Reform: Exemption Central
No mention in Records Reform Advances Herald-Standard Kori Walter or in the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review posted AP articleState Senate Poised to Vote on Open Records Bill concerning legislative emails.
We'll have to wait and see what the state Senate has offered in full.
The House bill rested largely on the original proposal by freshman state Representative Timothy Mahoney.
Mahoney's bill did not apply the access to past records.
During an October press conference Mahoney is quoted saying "we don't need any more investigations."
His bill contained the exemption for a certain segment of legislative electronic communications. We've questioned this since our post Tuesday, October 16, 2007 Citizen Discontent Open Records Exemptions.
The original bill HB 443 under the exemption clause read:
In an Herald-Standard article Frustrated, Larry Roberts plans run for office, Rep. Mahoney is reported justifying the exemption for some legislative emails:
Action which took place regarding Babette Josephs amendment and subsequent votes remains puzzling. Brad Bumsted's article reads:
Read down the list to see who voted Nay. H. William DeWeese. At odds with members of the Democratic delegation which represents portions of the same county as DeWeese.
Including Yay votes of Timothy Mahoney, Deberah Kula, and Peter Daley.
A "yes" vote would have made lawmakers' e-mail available (if approved finally).
That effort failed.
The Philadelphia Democrat's amendment was defeated 127-69 with seven members excused.
A subsequent amendment may have passed, and we only find this current comment by Rep. Timothy Mahoney in a recent Herald-Standard article:
Bumsted's report includes the Pennsylvania Newspaper Association assailing the House Bill 443:
"what the Pennsylvania Newspaper Association calls a blanket exemption for lawmakers' e-mail in House Bill 443."
Our report notes the chronology of when Wednesday, October 24, 2007
PA Newspaper Publishers Retract Support for Open Records (Corruption Protection Act)
An October 17 Kori Walter report is entitled
We can't help but point out that the Observor-Reporter's commentary and the Herald-Standard's commentary as exerpted and linked from Tube City Almanac site, appears to be completely opposite to the Brad Bumsted commentary Shhh! More state secrets By Brad Bumsted
Pittsburgh Tribune-Review published Sunday, November 11, 2007 concerning the email exemptions and the proposed Babette Josephs amendment.
The Bumsted commentary says the Josephs bill was rectifying the situation of what the PNA called 'blanket' exemptions for legislative emails with a Yea vote.
According to Bumsted's report, Mahoney, Kula, and Daley voted yes, while DeWeese voted nay?
The Josephs amendment at that time made the e-mails "available."
Three area representatives voted for that, while DeWeese voted against it.
A Sentinel Online article Lawmakers say open-records bill better, but flawed November 4, 2007 appears to refer to the Babette Josephs amendment as the defeat stats are the same.
Rep. Mahoney - current explanation on the open records bill
Mahoney said his open records legislation would allow the opening of the contents of e-mails that deal with money or state business, but not the contents of private e-mails from constituents to their legislators
Given Rep. Tim Mahoney's recent terse explanation of what emails will and will not be exempted from sunshine, open government records, we're left to question:
What kind of money? From whom? Lobbyists? To whom? What kind of state business? With whom, lobbyists? Staff employees?
In other words, what will become the definition of "money," "state business," "private," and "constituents" in the final legislation?
One state recently made all government e-mails public records.
Why can't PA. Simply redact constituents' names in the event of personal e-mails, as Bumsted suggests.
Better yet. Set up a personal corner of your home with your own laptop you pay for and obtain a personal email account you pay for on your own time and dime, and use after your day-work hours, and we the public won't have access to that, will we? Or carry your personal laptop around with you, and access your personal email from there, during a lunch or dinner break while you're there in Harrisburg serving the people while you're being served exquisite lunches and dinners at nearby 10 star restaurants.
Better still. Let's pool all our federal tax rebate money and local school property tax windfall we're going to get back and start a public servants' e-cafe.
How much we get will depend on the definition of money and windfall.
(Net the Truth Online)
Resources
Babette Josephs
http://www.babette.org/PoliOpen-1177.html
Lawmakers upbeat on open records reform
Kori Walter, For the Herald-Standard January 21, 2008
http://www.heraldstandard.com/site/news.cfm?dept_id=480247&PAG=461&newsid=19216138
This material was updated upon review (March 1, 2008)
We'll have to wait and see what the state Senate has offered in full.
The House bill rested largely on the original proposal by freshman state Representative Timothy Mahoney.
Mahoney's bill did not apply the access to past records.
Pennsylvania pushes to open records By Brad Bumsted Tribune Review Tuesday, October 16, 2007
Advocates are concerned about a provision in Mahoney's bill that would limit release to future records, Wilson said.
During an October press conference Mahoney is quoted saying "we don't need any more investigations."
His bill contained the exemption for a certain segment of legislative electronic communications. We've questioned this since our post Tuesday, October 16, 2007 Citizen Discontent Open Records Exemptions.
The original bill HB 443 under the exemption clause read:
Section 302 Access Generally (a) Enumerated Exemptions
(24) Electronic mail...
provided that the electronic mail does not contain the discussion of the spending of public money or the duties and powers of the office, officeholder, or agency.
http://www.legis.state.pa.us/CFDOCS/Legis/PN/Public/btCheck.cfm?txtType=HTM&sessYr=2007&sessInd=0&billBody=H&billTyp=B&billNbr=0443&pn=0813
In an Herald-Standard article Frustrated, Larry Roberts plans run for office, Rep. Mahoney is reported justifying the exemption for some legislative emails:
Frustrated, Larry Roberts plans run for office
By Jennifer Harr, Herald-Standard
01/26/2008
Mahoney said his open records legislation would allow the opening of the contents of e-mails that deal with money or state business, but not the contents of private e-mails from constituents to their legislators.
"That's probably the most important issue in the state of Pennsylvania because we're dealing with $27 billion annually," Mahoney said.
http://www.heraldstandard.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=19234474&BRD=2280&PAG=461&dept_id=480247&rfi=6
In House panel debates parameters of open records
By Kori Walter, For the Herald-Standard
10/18/2007
Updated 10/19/2007 12:06:03 AM EDT
...In addition to criticizing the process, Kauffman and others found flaws in the legislation.
Although the bill would apply to the Legislature for the first time, lawmakers added language that would keep all state and local government officials' e-mail messages private.
A previous version of the legislation would have given the public access to only e-mail messages related to spending taxpayer money.
Kauffman said the e-mail provision could have been written more narrowly to exempt some correspondence between lawmakers and their constituents.
"It's absurd to just say all e-mail is out," he said.
The Pennsylvania Newspaper Association also complained that the bill includes unprecedented exemptions and permits state and local agencies to subjectively deny burdensome requests for documents and other information.
"We believe that as written, this proposal would provide less access than is available under today's Right to Know Law," said Deborah L. Musselman, the association's lobbyist.
http://www.heraldstandard.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18929586&brd=2280&pag=461&dept_id=480247
Action which took place regarding Babette Josephs amendment and subsequent votes remains puzzling. Brad Bumsted's article reads:
Shhh! More state secrets By Brad Bumsted
Pittsburgh Tribune-Review published Sunday, November 11, 2007 notes
Rep. Babette Josephs, chairwoman of the House State Government Committee, last month offered an amendment to remove what the Pennsylvania Newspaper Association calls a "blanket exemption" for lawmakers' e-mail in House Bill 443. The Philadelphia Democrat's amendment was defeated 127-69 with seven members excused...
... Here is how your House members voted on the Josephs amendment. A "yes" vote would have made lawmakers' e-mail available (if approved finally). A "no" vote scuttled her amendment and maintained the status quo:
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/opinion/columnists/bumsted/s_537390.html
Read down the list to see who voted Nay. H. William DeWeese. At odds with members of the Democratic delegation which represents portions of the same county as DeWeese.
Including Yay votes of Timothy Mahoney, Deberah Kula, and Peter Daley.
A "yes" vote would have made lawmakers' e-mail available (if approved finally).
That effort failed.
The Philadelphia Democrat's amendment was defeated 127-69 with seven members excused.
A subsequent amendment may have passed, and we only find this current comment by Rep. Timothy Mahoney in a recent Herald-Standard article:
his open records legislation would allow the opening of the contents of e-mails that deal with money or state business, but not the contents of private e-mails from constituents to their legislators
Bumsted's report includes the Pennsylvania Newspaper Association assailing the House Bill 443:
"what the Pennsylvania Newspaper Association calls a blanket exemption for lawmakers' e-mail in House Bill 443."
Our report notes the chronology of when Wednesday, October 24, 2007
PA Newspaper Publishers Retract Support for Open Records (Corruption Protection Act)
An October 17 Kori Walter report is entitled
Proposal exempts correspondence from public review
By Kori Walter, For the Herald-Standard
10/17/2007 Updated 10/17/2007 12:16:00 AM EDT
http://www.heraldstandard.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18924529&BRD=2280&PAG=461&dept_id=480247&rfi=6
We can't help but point out that the Observor-Reporter's commentary and the Herald-Standard's commentary as exerpted and linked from Tube City Almanac site, appears to be completely opposite to the Brad Bumsted commentary Shhh! More state secrets By Brad Bumsted
Pittsburgh Tribune-Review published Sunday, November 11, 2007 concerning the email exemptions and the proposed Babette Josephs amendment.
The Bumsted commentary says the Josephs bill was rectifying the situation of what the PNA called 'blanket' exemptions for legislative emails with a Yea vote.
According to Bumsted's report, Mahoney, Kula, and Daley voted yes, while DeWeese voted nay?
The Josephs amendment at that time made the e-mails "available."
Three area representatives voted for that, while DeWeese voted against it.
A Sentinel Online article Lawmakers say open-records bill better, but flawed November 4, 2007 appears to refer to the Babette Josephs amendment as the defeat stats are the same.
Legislators debated nearly 100 amendments for 13 hours Tuesday before finishing changes to House Bill 443, which would overhaul the 50-year-old open-records law.
But the bill still contains exemptions for all e-mail communications, correspondence between legislators and other public officials and would not apply to records.
The exemption for all e-mail, in particular, has angered some area lawmakers.
“It’s a Mack Truck loophole,” said state Rep. William Gabig, R-199.
Officials could use the loophole to hide records in e-mail, he said. If government officials send official records via e-mail, Gabig said, they should be public...
http://www.cumberlink.com/articles/2007/11/04/news/news606.txt
Rep. Mahoney - current explanation on the open records bill
Mahoney said his open records legislation would allow the opening of the contents of e-mails that deal with money or state business, but not the contents of private e-mails from constituents to their legislators
Given Rep. Tim Mahoney's recent terse explanation of what emails will and will not be exempted from sunshine, open government records, we're left to question:
What kind of money? From whom? Lobbyists? To whom? What kind of state business? With whom, lobbyists? Staff employees?
In other words, what will become the definition of "money," "state business," "private," and "constituents" in the final legislation?
One state recently made all government e-mails public records.
Why can't PA. Simply redact constituents' names in the event of personal e-mails, as Bumsted suggests.
Better yet. Set up a personal corner of your home with your own laptop you pay for and obtain a personal email account you pay for on your own time and dime, and use after your day-work hours, and we the public won't have access to that, will we? Or carry your personal laptop around with you, and access your personal email from there, during a lunch or dinner break while you're there in Harrisburg serving the people while you're being served exquisite lunches and dinners at nearby 10 star restaurants.
Better still. Let's pool all our federal tax rebate money and local school property tax windfall we're going to get back and start a public servants' e-cafe.
How much we get will depend on the definition of money and windfall.
(Net the Truth Online)
Resources
Babette Josephs
http://www.babette.org/PoliOpen-1177.html
Shhh! More state secrets
By Brad Bumsted
STATE CAPITOL REPORTER
Sunday, November 11, 2007
HARRISBURG
You've got mail!
But odds are it will not be from your state legislator.
The state House has voted preliminarily to keep members' e-mail secret. A final vote on the House bill -- ironically called "open-records reform" -- is expected this week.
Rep. Babette Josephs, chairwoman of the House State Government Committee, last month offered an amendment to remove what the Pennsylvania Newspaper Association calls a "blanket exemption" for lawmakers' e-mail in House Bill 443. The Philadelphia Democrat's amendment was defeated 127-69 with seven members excused.
An official of the National Conference of State Legislatures, testifying before a special House panel earlier this year, said 33 states consider e-mail to be a matter of public record.
Pennsylvania legislators says they oppose release of their e-mail because confidential communications from constituents might be revealed to the public. They talk about this almost as if they are lawyers protecting the rights of their clients to privacy or priests upholding the sanctity of confession.
Please. Did they ever hear of redaction? They could provide in the law for deletion of a constituent's name in a personal matter. By and large, citizens are writing about issues and legislation or problems in the legislator's district.
What Joe Six Pack tells his legislator is rarely newsworthy.
Are they afraid we'll see conversations that are political, not issue-based? Are they worried about Bonusgate, the attorney general's probe of bonuses to legislative staffers allegedly in return for off-staff campaign work?
If they have nothing to hide, what's the big deal about seeing their e-mail? We're paying for the computers, the phone bills, their time (salary), their office rent, lights, perks -- the works.
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/opinion/columnists/bumsted/s_537390.html
Records reform advances
By Kori Walter, For the Herald-Standard
01/29/2008
HARRISBURG - The state Senate could vote as early as today on a bill giving the public greater access to records generated by all levels of government in Pennsylvania.
The state Senate Rules Committee voted 14-1 on Monday night to approve an overhaul of the state's 50 year-old open records bill.
Sen. Vincent Fumo, a Philadelphia Democrat, was the lone dissenting vote.
House and Senate leaders have been negotiating for more than a month to settle differences between open records proposals from each chamber...
...Deborah L. Musselman, a lobbyist for the Pennsylvania Newspaper Association, she was pleased that the Senate proposal would keep dates of birth on government documents public.
"We hope the House will concur on that change," she said.
http://www.heraldstandard.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=19240509&BRD=2280&PAG=461&dept_id=480247&rfi=6
State senate poised to vote on open records bill
By The Associated Press
Tuesday, January 29, 2008
HARRISBURG -- The Senate on Monday readied a rewrite of Pennsylvania's open records law for a vote as senators look for ways to compromise with a House version that passed six weeks ago.
The Senate Rules Committee approved an amended bill, 14-1, and set it up for a potential vote today by the full Senate.
House Majority Leader Bill DeWeese, D-Greene, expressed confidence yesterday that the chambers would send a final version to Gov. Ed Rendell for his signature this week.
In general, the Senate and House versions are designed to subject more records to public review and give citizens a better chance in court when challenging a government rejection of an open records request.
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribunereview/news/state/s_549772.html
Lawmakers upbeat on open records reform
Kori Walter, For the Herald-Standard January 21, 2008
http://www.heraldstandard.com/site/news.cfm?dept_id=480247&PAG=461&newsid=19216138
Legislature wants open records bill passed soon
By KORI WALTER
Bucks County Courier Times
HARRISBURG — Although the state Senate did not act on a proposal strengthening Pennsylvania's open records law last week, legislative leaders remain optimistic legislation will be sent to Gov. Ed Rendell by the end of the month.
Public access to county coroners' autopsy reports and arbitration documents for public school teachers involved in labor disputes are among the issues that need to be resolved, said Deborah Musselman, a lobbyist for the Pennsylvania Newspapers Association.
Autopsy information and arbitration awards are considered public records and available to the public under current law.
However, the state House of Representatives sent the Senate an open records bill in December that would block access to autopsy reports.
http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/111-01242008-1476440.html
Today (Possibly) Is Open Records Day. October 29, 2007
Among the association's complaints: a never-before recognized ''privilege,'' or exemption, for all correspondence and related documents between legislators and their constituents, and an exemption for all correspondence and records between public officials and agencies. The group also objected to a provision that would allow a government agency to reject a request for information judged to be too onerous or burdensome.
The meeting also angered lawmakers, who complained they hadn't had time to digest the blizzard of amendments.
In the Senate, Pileggi's bill is expected to be amended to include the same ''flip of presumption" language as in the House bill. The Senate bill also expands current law to include the Legislature and its associated agencies.
http://blogs.mcall.com/capitol_ideas/2007/10/today-possibly-.html
Lawmakers say open-records bill better, but flawed
By Alex Roarty, Sentinel Reporter, aroarty@cumberlink.com
Last updated: Sunday, November 4, 2007 12:47 AM EDT
A bill created in the state House last week aimed at reforming Pennsylvania’s much-criticized open-records law has an array of loopholes, inconsistencies and mistakes, according to Cumberland County state lawmakers.
Harsh criticism, but open-record advocates go a step farther — they say the bill could actually further restrict the public’s access to government records.
Legislators debated nearly 100 amendments for 13 hours Tuesday before finishing changes to House Bill 443, which would overhaul the 50-year-old open-records law.
Lawmakers agree the biggest change would be the so-called “flip of presumption,” which would make all government records public unless specifically exempted.
The amendments also removed language that would allow state agencies to deny any requests that are “burdensome” and mandated that a panel resolving public-record disputes would be appointed by the state ethics commission.
But the bill still contains exemptions for all e-mail communications, correspondence between legislators and other public officials and would not apply to records.
The exemption for all e-mail, in particular, has angered some area lawmakers...
All other area House members agreed that the law needs to protect some form of e-mail communication between their constituents and themselves. The measure was defeated 127 to 69.
The Pennsylvania Newspaper Association, in a press release, said Pennsylvania would be the only state in the country to exempt all e-mail from public access.
http://www.cumberlink.com/articles/2007/11/04/news/news606.txt
This material was updated upon review (March 1, 2008)
Mainstream Media Sells McCain Clinton Establishment Candidates
Establishment presidential candidates:
John McCain
Hillary Clinton
The pair were given media coverage you can't put a price on. Daily Straigth Talk. Every news article features the Straight Talk Express and John McCain's version of it.
Meanwhile look at the tagline given Mitt Romney. Unlimited resources. One media pundit said Romney's getting funding around the country, but if he doesn't get a bump or momentum from a win in Florida, all he has to do is look in the mirror!
Let's throw in John Edwards. The man has wealth, but do we ever hear daily just how much? No, since the mainstream media is lenient on that point with the Democrats, but with Republicans, wealth is equal to shady character and silver spoon.
The Clintons are now rich. Bill is worth millions. Nobody questions how the book deals were made.
John McCain has used the largess of corporations flying around the country on jets. Nobody ever hears about this.
Huckabee plugging his book while he criss-crosses the country. So too do the pundits who talk about him. Nobody questions who published his book.
More
John McCain
Hillary Clinton
The pair were given media coverage you can't put a price on. Daily Straigth Talk. Every news article features the Straight Talk Express and John McCain's version of it.
Meanwhile look at the tagline given Mitt Romney. Unlimited resources. One media pundit said Romney's getting funding around the country, but if he doesn't get a bump or momentum from a win in Florida, all he has to do is look in the mirror!
Let's throw in John Edwards. The man has wealth, but do we ever hear daily just how much? No, since the mainstream media is lenient on that point with the Democrats, but with Republicans, wealth is equal to shady character and silver spoon.
The Clintons are now rich. Bill is worth millions. Nobody questions how the book deals were made.
John McCain has used the largess of corporations flying around the country on jets. Nobody ever hears about this.
Huckabee plugging his book while he criss-crosses the country. So too do the pundits who talk about him. Nobody questions who published his book.
Friends of Hillary Sunday, December 30, 2007 Tribune-Review Half-Page books section
Rush Limbaugh, Newt Gingrich, Ann Coulter and other conservative all-stars helped L. Brent Bozell and Tim Graham show how the mainstream liberal media have relentlessly promoted Hillary Clinton and protected her from the serious scrutiny she and her left-liberal political agenda deserve. We asked media critic Bozell -- the head of the Media Research Center and Sunday Trib columnist -- to send us his favorite excerpt from "Whitewash: What the Media Won't Tell You About Hillary Clinton, but Conservatives Will (Crown Forum). Here Bozell and Graham are writing about the tender care Hillary received when she was plugging her 2003 memoir, "Living History":
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/opinion/halfpagebooks/s_545062.html
More
ABC News blog
Political Punch
Power, pop, and probings from ABC News Senior National Correspondent Jake Tapper
Bill: "We Just Have to Slow Down Our Economy" to Fight Global Warming
January 31, 2008 9:26 AM
Former President Bill Clinton was in Denver, Colorado, stumping for his wife yesterday.
In a long, and interesting speech, he characterized what the U.S. and other industrialized nations need to do to combat global warming this way: "We just have to slow down our economy and cut back our greenhouse gas emissions 'cause we have to save the planet for our grandchildren."
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/01/bill-we-just-ha.html
Tuesday, January 29, 2008
Romney and McCain Close
Early voting a factor?
http://www.usaelectionpolls.com/2008/florida.html
Discuss issues
http://www.nolanchart.com/index.php
http://www.usaelectionpolls.com/2008/florida.html
Discuss issues
http://www.nolanchart.com/index.php
Suddenly Plausible Obama
That's what the Fox News pundits are saying on Brit Hume programming.
After all the recent endorsements by the Kennedy's, Caroline and Ted, and more Senator Claire McCaskill (who btw was speaking to Obama when Hillary Clinton approached at the beginning of the State of the Union Message - that's why he didn't handshake)
He has a Kenyan father, he was raised by a white maternal family... he's a guy who's inspiring...
Mort says he's a viable Presidential candidate...
After all the recent endorsements by the Kennedy's, Caroline and Ted, and more Senator Claire McCaskill (who btw was speaking to Obama when Hillary Clinton approached at the beginning of the State of the Union Message - that's why he didn't handshake)
He has a Kenyan father, he was raised by a white maternal family... he's a guy who's inspiring...
Mort says he's a viable Presidential candidate...
Monday, January 28, 2008
Update
California Vote By Mail
Absentee Voting Killed in California
http://www.californiaprogressreport.com/2007/10/absentee_voting_1.html
Verified Voting Viewpoint expressed
CA: Secretary of State Debra Bowen Issues Landmark Restrictions on the use of Electronic Voting Systems
Restrictions apply starting with February 5 Primary Election August 3rd, 2007
http://verifiedvotingfoundation.org/article.php?id=6495
Testing California Hart InterCivic
Executive Summary
http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voting_systems/ttbr/red_hart.pdf
http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voting_systems/ttbr/red_hart_final.pdf
http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voting_systems/ttbr/hart.pdf
Hart InterCivic Response to California Red Team Top-to-Bottom Review
July 30, 2007
http://www.hartintercivic.com/files/California_SOS_Top-To-Bottom_Review_of_Electronic_Voting_Systems.pdf
FAQ
http://www.hartic.com/pages/214
California Vote By Mail
Absentee Voting Killed in California
http://www.californiaprogressreport.com/2007/10/absentee_voting_1.html
Verified Voting Viewpoint expressed
CA: Secretary of State Debra Bowen Issues Landmark Restrictions on the use of Electronic Voting Systems
Restrictions apply starting with February 5 Primary Election August 3rd, 2007
http://verifiedvotingfoundation.org/article.php?id=6495
Testing California Hart InterCivic
Executive Summary
http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voting_systems/ttbr/red_hart.pdf
http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voting_systems/ttbr/red_hart_final.pdf
http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voting_systems/ttbr/hart.pdf
Hart InterCivic Response to California Red Team Top-to-Bottom Review
July 30, 2007
http://www.hartintercivic.com/files/California_SOS_Top-To-Bottom_Review_of_Electronic_Voting_Systems.pdf
FAQ
http://www.hartic.com/pages/214
County Faces Costs Scanner Paper Ballots Voting System
Voting Machine Paper Ballot & Scanners
Discussion Among Commissioners
Follow-up Posts in Comments to Newspaper Report
Discussion Among Commissioners
Follow-up Posts in Comments to Newspaper Report
Paper ballot voting system may be purchased
By Amy Zalar, Herald-Standard
01/25/2008
Updated 01/26/2008 12:06:05 AM EST
Voters in Fayette County unhappy with the electronic voting system in place for the past few elections may have an option in November, although the issue of long lines at the polls may not be addressed prior to the April 22 primary.
Although several voting machine options were discussed during Thursday's commissioners meeting, the end result was a motion to formulate a plan that could mean the future purchase of a paper ballot voting system.
Commission Chairman Vincent Zapotosky and Commissioner Vincent A. Vicites approved a motion to develop a plan to purchase eScan machines from Hart Intercivic. Commissioner Angela M. Zimmerlink voted against the action, instead making a motion to purchase 50 additional eSlate machines with the money the commissioners previously set aside for such a purchase.
The motion to purchase addition eSlate machines did not receive a second. Zapotosky said he thinks such a purchase would be throwing good money away.
Vicites said he has been doing a lot of research for the past couple weeks, specifically regarding the eSlate electronic dial machine as compared to the eScan paper ballot system.
Vicites said he called a couple counties that use both systems and received positive comments.
"I favor at this point going with the eScan system," Vicites said.
Vicites added that the eScan is more expensive than the eSlate machines, and a plan would have to be formulated how to make up the difference. The county budgeted $170,000 to purchase 55 new eSlate machines, but Vicites said the necessary number of eScan machines would cost about $472,000, for a difference of $300,000.
Zapotosky said he never has been a fan of the eSlate system.
"The question is, "Do we put a cost on the greatest right we have as a citizen?'" Zapotosky said.
http://www.heraldstandard.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=19230804&BRD=2280&PAG=461&dept_id=480247&rfi=6
Reader Comments
Added: Sunday January 27, 2008 at 10:18 AM EST
Where'd the $500,000 County Earmark Go
Taxpayers of PA is right on to question the expenditure of any government monies which all originate from one place. The Taxpayers.
In the case of the voting systems, federal monies were involved in the initial acquisition of a new voting system around the state. County monies were also earmarked in the Fayette county budget pre-2006 to go toward implementing a voting system that met state and federal requirements.
The federal monies were distributed under the Help America Vote Act (HAVA) to the states to distribute to the local counties. Counties were to come up with a plan to implement HAVA and state requirements.
http://www.dos.state.pa.us/sure/cwp/view.asp?a=1207&Q=443565
For Fayette, some $1.1 million reportedly was obtained from the HAVA funding source.
FAQ
http://www.co.fayette.pa.us/fayette/lib/fayette/eslate/fayette_faqs.pdf
As these minutes reflect, the county had set aside an available $500,000 for acquiring a voting system in a previous budget.
http://www.co.fayette.pa.us/fayette/lib/fayette/commminutes2006/march_21-22_2006.pdf
According to the minutes, that county earmark of some $500,000 was not needed for the voting systems.
What happened to it? Where was $500,000 or some portion of it applied? If the county money did not go to the voting system, where did it go? Back to the taxpayers? At just around that time, the millage rate was decreased, shortly after Fayette had the largest increase in Fayette history, according to reports, some 60ncrease all things factored in.
What happened between then and now is a question all county taxpayers should be asking.
Is only $170,000 left-over from whatever funding sources for voting systems?
What happened in a county budget which at one time included $500,000 specifically earmarked for voting systems?
That should be among the questions PA and local taxpayers should be asking.
Ask, because now the board is in a situation where there is only $170,000 budgeted for voting systems. How valuable would even that $170,000 be if applied to acquiring more of the same type of electronic voting machines the county already has in stock?
At least in the opinion of the two commissioners, not very valuable.
The eSlates will work the same way no matter how many more are purchased given the budgeted $170,000. Only a few voters per hour can use one eSlate. Studies by well-regarded election-watch groups show it takes less time for the voter to mark the paper ballot - either by hand or using another type of accessible voter verified marking system that marks the paper ballot - and run these through the electronic scanner set up at the polling place.
Questions are currently running rampant surrounding the paperless systems. Even if the system printed out a cast ballot record as the county site says can be done, the printout is only what was recorded as a digital image and stored on a memory card.
http://www.co.fayette.pa.us/fayette/lib/fayette/eslate/fayette_faqs.pdf
The "paper" record is a match only to the record the image produced. Nobody can verify that was actually how the voter cast the ballot.
A favorable feature of the eSlates is the ability for the voter to ask the Judge of Elections to determine whether the voter's random access code shows assigned and cast.
Still the voter cannot be assured the paper print-out from the digital image stored in memory is the way the person voted. This remember was not a concern using mechanical lever machines back in the day. Now it is because of the technological advances.
Should a feature be added which allows for that digital image to be printed out at the time the voter votes, before the voter casts the "paper" ballot, and the voter (in private) verifies that as a paper record, then casts the paper ballot, that could provide a solution. Activists around the country are considering just such potentials, but so far, no such system is available for the current situation of paperless systems.
Favorable to the eScans is a paper ballot record of votes as backup and in case of challenges and recounts.
There are what are known as accessible voter marked paper ballot systems with other companies which the commissioners may also want to consider.
The concern now for Fayette voters and taxpayers should be where can the necessary funds be found to meet the challenge to provide the most adequate and best "voter verified" voting system for the electorate.
We should press the board to work diligently to provide this for the Pennsylvania April 22 Primary which may factor in the Democratic and Republican nomination for President.
Commissioners' Meeting Minutes
http://www.co.fayette.pa.us/fayette/cwp/view.asp?a=2269&q=516995
Federal Legislation recently introduced in Congress H.B. 5036
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-5036
Hold Them All Accountable
Added: Friday January 25, 2008 at 05:56 PM EST
Yes Vince, there IS a cost
"The question is, "Do we put a cost on the greatest right we have as a citizen?'" Zapotosky said.
Yes, Vince, we DO put a cost on it.
And how very liberal and bureaucratic of you to suggest that cost is no object when it comes to taxpayer money.
Taxpayers, of PA
Saturday, January 26, 2008
Obama South Carolina Victory Match
A President Like My Father
By CAROLINE KENNEDY
Published: January 27, 2008
OVER the years, I’ve been deeply moved by the people who’ve told me they wished they could feel inspired and hopeful about America the way people did when my father was president. This sense is even more profound today. That is why I am supporting a presidential candidate in the Democratic primaries, Barack Obama.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/27/opinion/27kennedy.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
Clearest win to date. Vote by vote. Checking if there were any glitches...
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&q=south+carolina+obama+wins&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=X&oi=news_result&resnum=1&ct=title
Clinton and McCain very close
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/01/25/bill-clinton-john-mccain-and-hillary-are-very-close/
Temper Tantrums
I'm a big fan of taking stuff away from the kid when she doesn't ask for it politely. Putting something they want up on a shelf where they can see it, but can't get to it, is handy variation on that theme. To some parents, this will seem like torturous manipulativeness, and guess what? It is. One of your jobs as a parent is to help your kid grow up into the kind of person that other people can stand to be around...
http://lifehacker.com/software/family-hacks/family-hacks--how-to-deal-with-a-childs-tantrum-140109.php
I'm a big fan of taking stuff away from the kid when she doesn't ask for it politely. Putting something they want up on a shelf where they can see it, but can't get to it, is handy variation on that theme. To some parents, this will seem like torturous manipulativeness, and guess what? It is. One of your jobs as a parent is to help your kid grow up into the kind of person that other people can stand to be around...
http://lifehacker.com/software/family-hacks/family-hacks--how-to-deal-with-a-childs-tantrum-140109.php
PA Voting News
Group seeks to halt voting machine buy
BY DAVID SINGLETON
STAFF WRITER
01/26/2008
Whether Lackawanna County voters use electronic touch-screen machines or another voting system in the April 22 primary may be decided by a state appeals court.
A Seattle-based organization that is challenging the legality of e-voting in Pennsylvania sought a preliminary injunction Friday in Commonwealth Court in Philadelphia that would effectively preclude the use of electronic voting machines in Lackawanna, Wayne and Northampton counties.
The group, Voter Action, contends touch-screen machines violate a provision of the state Election Code that requires a permanent physical record of each vote cast.
In a motion filed by the Public Interest Law Center of Philadelphia, the group specifically asked the court to prohibit Secretary of the Commonwealth Pedro Cortes from allowing the counties to buy other touch-screen machines to replace their decertified Advanced Voting Solutions devices.
The counties have the option of using paper ballots with optical-scan equipment, the motion said.
“We are asking that they not be allowed to put $4 million down the same rat hole they’ve already put the other money,” said attorney Michael Churchill, who filed the paperwork, referring to the amount the state has agreed to reimburse the three counties for new machines.
Officials in Lackawanna and Wayne counties still have not selected voting systems for the primary but are under pressure to act quickly. Northampton County decided last week to purchase full-face touch-screen machines from Sequoia Voting Systems.
http://www.thetimes-tribune.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=19234873&BRD=2185&PAG=461&dept_id=415898&rfi=
Block sought for voting machine purchase
Group wants injunction against Northampton County.
By Joe Nixon | Of The Morning Call
January 26, 2008
Electors already challenging electronic voting machines in Pennsylvania asked Commonwealth Court on Friday to stop Northampton and two other counties from buying a new electronic voting system to replace one decertified last year.
...The injunction request filed Friday said the action doesn't seek to prevent the use of electronic machines ''currently certified and already purchased, but merely to prevent the state from permitting counties to spend $4 million of state money on purchasing new machines which are the subject of this litigation and which, if petitioners prevail, will have to be sold for scrap.''
...The plaintiffs, which include Hanover Township, Northampton County, voting activist Dr. Alan Brau, have challenged the reliability and accuracy of direct recording electronic machines in a suit originally filed in 2006. That action is pending, but is on hold while the state Supreme Court considers a request from the state to hear an appeal of a Commonwealth Court decision that let the suit proceed.
The plaintiffs have alleged the machines don't provide a permanent physical record of each vote as required by the state election code. None of the machines, the voters say, is capable of a ''meaningful audit,'' and none has a ''voter-verified physical record of the voter's intent.''
''This [injunction request] is really an extension of the original suit,'' said Brau.
Those seeking the injunction argued that if the court prohibited the purchase of the challenged machines, counties would still have options. Those alternatives, they said, include the use of voter-marked paper ballots with precinct-based or centrally-based optical scan equipment. An optical scanner was among the options considered, but rejected, in Northampton.
http://www.mcall.com/news/local/all-b4_3votes.6245199jan26,0,2173000.story
Pennsylvania Voters Seek Injunction to Block Purchase of Electronic/Touchscreen Voting Systems
Jan 25 2008 | Cite Machines’ Inability to Verify Votes, Secretary’s non-compliance with law
http://voteraction.org/node/330
BBV Archives
http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/166/40335.html?1188164821
Obama: Get Florida Delegates Back on Board
Don't ignore Florida. Though the national Democratic Party decertified Florida's delegates, voters will still show up at the polls to vote for presidential candidates.
Obama should get Florida on board with his agenda and make an appearance there before January 29 Primary. He shouldn't let Hillary Clinton have the edge in an effort to reinstitute Florida's Democratic party delegates - later - after the election - and before the Democratic Party's national convention in August.
Senator Obama should press now for those delegates to be reinstated.
Somebody doesn't have the story straight in Michigan. Clinton did win a majority of the votes, but she actually took away one less delegate to Obama's 13.
What's at Stake in the Florida Primary?
by Nancy Cook
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=18429016
DNC Strips Florida Of 2008 Delegates
No Convention Slots Unless Later Primary Is Set
By Michael D. Shear
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, August 26, 2007; Page A01
The Democratic National Committee sought to seize control of its unraveling nominating process yesterday, rejecting pleas from state party leaders and cracking down on Florida for scheduling a Jan. 29 presidential primary.
The DNC's rules and bylaws committee, which enforces party rules, voted yesterday morning to strip Florida of all its delegates to the 2008 Democratic National Convention in Denver -- the harshest penalty at its disposal.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/25/AR2007082500275.html
How it's done
http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P08/FL-D.phtml
Obama should get Florida on board with his agenda and make an appearance there before January 29 Primary. He shouldn't let Hillary Clinton have the edge in an effort to reinstitute Florida's Democratic party delegates - later - after the election - and before the Democratic Party's national convention in August.
Senator Obama should press now for those delegates to be reinstated.
Somebody doesn't have the story straight in Michigan. Clinton did win a majority of the votes, but she actually took away one less delegate to Obama's 13.
What's at Stake in the Florida Primary?
by Nancy Cook
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=18429016
Clinton: Give states their delegates By STEPHEN OHLEMACHER, Associated Press Writer Fri Jan 25, 5:33 PM ET
WASHINGTON - In a bit of political theater, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton and the Florida Democratic Party clamored to restore convention delegates that had been stripped by the national party.
At stake: 185 delegates in a state where Clinton leads almost 2-to-1.
The presidential candidate said Friday — just four days before Florida's primary — that she wants the convention delegates from Florida and Michigan reinstated. The national party eliminated all the delegates from those states — more than 350 in all — because they broke party rules against holding their primaries before Feb. 5. All the major Democratic candidates also made pledges not to campaign in those states before their primaries.
Clinton could claim most of the Michigan delegates because she won that state's primary after the other major candidates pulled their names from the ballot.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080125/ap_on_el_pr/clinton_florida_delegates
DNC Strips Florida Of 2008 Delegates
No Convention Slots Unless Later Primary Is Set
By Michael D. Shear
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, August 26, 2007; Page A01
The Democratic National Committee sought to seize control of its unraveling nominating process yesterday, rejecting pleas from state party leaders and cracking down on Florida for scheduling a Jan. 29 presidential primary.
The DNC's rules and bylaws committee, which enforces party rules, voted yesterday morning to strip Florida of all its delegates to the 2008 Democratic National Convention in Denver -- the harshest penalty at its disposal.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/25/AR2007082500275.html
How it's done
http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P08/FL-D.phtml
Friday, January 25, 2008
County Still Looking At Voting Machine Options
By Peter Becker
Wayne Independent
Fri Jan 25, 2008, 10:17 AM EST
HONESDALE -
A decision has not yet been made concerning the replacement of the touch-screen electronic voting machines, which were decertified by the state last autumn prior to the General Election.
In response to media questioning at Tuesday’s Wayne County Commissioners’ meeting, Commissioner Anthony Herzog stated they are considering keeping the paper ballot method which was employed November 5th.
Chairman Brian Smith added, “It may be the only cost effective means.” Commissioner Wendall Kay stressed that foremost in their decision will be a system that is both reliable and verifiable. Secondly, they must look hard at the financial costs.
Herzog reminded that the machines they looked at during a recent vendor fair would cost the county $300 to $650 thousand The state has only offered to reimburse the county $293,000 to replace the decertified machines...
http://www.wayneindependent.com/homepage/x603847249
Wayne considering leasing machines for April primary
BY MEGAN REITER
STAFF WRITER
01/23/2008
...Ms. Furman said a new voting system could cost the county between $500,000 and $650,000. Mr. Smith said that estimate could be as high as $790,000, not counting additional costs for a paper trail. County officials are still unsure of the source of the additional money for a new voting system.
Officials are also concerned about choosing between systems with a touch screen or a paper ballot trail, worrying the county could be left with another decertified system if the state or federal government revises its mandates.
“There seems to be a lot of things up in the air,” Mr. Smith said. “Nobody wants to get ... burned here for a lot of money.”
Purchasing a new voting system is not just a matter of having the machines in place by April 22. Ms. Furman said the county also needs to train voters and poll workers on using the machines.
“There seems to be so much chaos in this decision,” Mr. Smith said.
With time running out, Mr. Smith said leasing machines again is a possibility, though not the county’s official plan at this point. Ms. Furman said some of the vendors have offered the county lease-to-own options with their systems. In November, the county leased eight optical scan machines from Texas-based Hart InterCivic for about $53,000.
http://www.thetimes-tribune.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=19222833&BRD=2185&PAG=461&dept_id=416046&rfi=6
Replacing Wayne County's Voting Machines Could Cost $500,000-$650,000
By Tammy Compton
Wayne Independent
Tue Jan 22, 2008, 06:16 PM EST
By still using optic scanners, Furman said, “We could have what they call central count. They bring all the ballots back, like they did last November, and we put them in the machine and read them here. Those machines we would purchase would be larger capacity, that they can read several thousand within an hour and we’d have the results in a much timelier fashion than last November.”
For someone visually impaired and not able to mark a paper ballot, Furman says they would still need, “such as a DRE where they can actually listen to the ballot and do a touch screen and do it on their own.”
http://www.wayneindependent.com/news/x142933055
Wayne’s new voting machines will be expensive
Brian Hineline 24.JAN.08
The price of voting in Wayne County is about to go up.
The state Department of State has agreed to reimburse the county $293,582 to cover money that was spent more than two years ago on electronic voting machines the agency has decertified. However, county officials have determined that new equipment will cost much more than that.
”It’s a complicated decision,” said Commissioner Brian Smith on Tuesday. “We have quotes that range anywhere from $500,000 to $650,000. That’s the problem.”
”The county is trying to decide what our best option will be. We don’t want to make the wrong decision,” added Director of Elections Cindy Furman.
The county purchased 100 electronic voting machines from Advanced Voting Solutions in 2005 for $293,582. The machines were used in the May 2006 primary, but could not be used after that due to the discovery of a software problem. The glitch involved races where voters chose several candidates, and those candidates cross-filed, such as school board elections. The machines were allowing voters to cast both a Republican and Democratic vote for the same candidate. Because these races were not part of the primary election, the software glitch did not affect the results of that election, according to Mrs. Furman.
http://www.theweeklyalmanac.com/default.asp?sourceid=&smenu=1&twindow=&mad=&sdetail=8633&wpage=1&skeyword=&sidate=&ccat=&ccatm=&restate=&restatus=&reoption=&retype=&repmin=&repmax=&rebed=&rebath=&subname=&pform=&sc=1020&hn=weeklyalmanac&he=.com
Vendor Fair
No "perfect" voting solution for county
BY DAVID SINGLETON
STAFF WRITER
01/20/2008
http://www.thetimes-tribune.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=19215186&BRD=2185&PAG=461&dept_id=415898&rfi=6
Wayne County, PA Leasing Hart eScans
by By Megan Reiter, Staff Writer, Times-Tribune
published 09/26/2007
read original news story
Wayne County Leasing Scanners for Election
HONESDALE - Wayne County will not be using its 100 Advanced Voting Solutions' WINvote touch-screen machines in the Nov. 6 election - but workers will not have to hand-count ballots, either.
The county plans to lease eight optical scan machines from Texas-based Hart InterCivic at an estimated cost of $53,000, said Cindy Furman, the county's director of elections.
The county Board of Elections voted last week to tentatively approve printing paper ballots, since the Department of State last month suspended the AVS machines' certification for the Nov. 6 election. Printing the ballots was expected to cost around $12,000, Ms. Furman said, and included hiring 20 to 30 people to count votes on election night...
...Each machine is expected to read 500 ballots per hour, Ms. Furman said, adding that the county is hoping to get through the ballots in a four-hour window after they start coming in when the polls close.
There are about 30,000 registered voters in Wayne County, and 40 to 45 percent normally turn up at the polls during a general election, Ms. Furman said.
http://www.internetvoting.com/news/62
Voting machines approved in Northampton County
January 18th, 2008 by CindySnyder
A new voting system will greet Northampton County voters when they cast ballots in the April 22 primary.
County Council on Thursday accepted a recommendation made earlier in the day by the county Election Commission to purchase 300 electronic voting machines from Sequoia Voting Systems. The company provides the same machines in Montgomery County.
http://www.keystonepolitics.com/story/regionalnews/lehighvalley/voting-machines-approved-northampton-county
Northampton County to get new voting machines
The Associated Press
EASTON, Pa. - Northampton County will have new electronic voting machines in time for the April primary.
The election commission and county administration recommended a vendor Thursday, and county council later approved the purchase from Sequoia Voting Systems.
http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/103-01182008-1473352.html
Northampton Co. Reverts To Older Voting Machines
EASTON, Pa. (AP) ― Northampton County officials are going back to the lever-style mechanical voting machines they used for decades.
They're not certain whether software upgrades to the county's new electronic touch-screen voting machines can be tested and certified in the 76 days before the November 6th election.
Advanced Voting Solutions makes the electronic machines.
http://cbs3.com/northampton/Voting.Machines.Touch.2.311198.html
VotePA Weighs in on Talk program paper ballots
Marybeth Kuznik, founder of VotePA, invited by a state Democratic committeewoman to call into a radio talk program when she was a guest, addressed Fayette County's choice to plan to acquire the voting system by November's General Election which includes paper ballots and scanners.
Kuznik noted an injunction was granted by a challenge to the state's DRE electronic voting systems. the injunctio prevents the acquisition of additional DRE paperless electronic voting systems, she said.
WMBS radio host, 'Bob Folta' asked the organization's director about the time process using the paper ballot and eScans.
Kuznik said the process would take a shorter time. With the DREs, or direct recording electronic machines, estimates are even with 3 units operated at the same time, machines are tied up for a longer period when voters take longer than recommended times of some 3-minutes or slightly longer.
"You could have many many voters voting at one time on paper ballots and it takes literally a second or two to process through the scanners," she said.
Asked about cost factor, some estimated $400,000 to supply the minimum 103 scanners, vs the lower estimate per eSlates, Kuznik responded that "is going to be worth the money."
Kuznik said the organization hadn't crunched those numbers, but the state's COSTAR program establishes negotiated prices with the vendors and those are public record. She noted the board of commissioners could sell off some of the DREs in the county's stock, retaining the necessary amount of handicapped accessible machines known as eSlate DAUs.
Studies have shown the cost of implementing paper balloting systems even with the cost of the paper year to year is less, and is more efficient.
VotePA is available on web and members have number of resources there, according to Kuznik. We have members in many counties so we stand ready to help these folks.
KuZnik noted PA it is among the last states to go with paper based system. Many large states are doing this and the non-paper systems seem to be on the way out.
9 Pennsylvania counties use completely paper based and 4 use a mixed system. The organization is working to get more counties to go with paper.
We could be the next Florida or Ohio, and in many counties we won't have these, we may have egg on our faces...
This system will not leave us with hanging chads, very easy to see on paper what their intent was...
Asked about what led to replacement of punchcards, Kuznik said legislation was passed in 2002 in response to horrible problems in 2000 Presidential election. Evidence unfolding over the years has shown the paper stock was inferior, a nightmare situation. Congress offered to pass bill quickly and didn't give a lot of thought to kinds of systems available to replace the punchcard system, forgot to consider the computer security, the identity theft we have, a vote has to be secret so it's that much harder to protect the intention.
Only record we can have is the anonymous paper ballot, there is a physical paper, and some voter made these choices and they have right to have these counted accurately, Kuznik said.
Strongest way to go is paper ballot with an audit trail.
Scanners will be compatible with new federal legislation if it passes. Support the new Rush Holt bill 5036 and request your listeners to contact Rep. John Murtha, and Shuster and get them to co-sponsor.
The federal legislation should it pass may provide the funding for the system Fayette intends to adopt.
More resources
Challenge
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~davide/voting-machines/Complaint-2006-08-15.pdf
http://www.voteraction.org/case/banfieldvcortes
electionline
http://www.pewcenteronthestates.org/electionline.aspx
Voting system choice up in air
BY DAVID SINGLETON
STAFF WRITER
01/24/2008
Jim and Donna Tomasetti couldn’t decide which of the electronic touch-screen devices on display Wednesday at a Lackawanna County-hosted voting machine fair they liked best.
But the Dunmore residents were clear what their recommendation to majority Commissioners Mike Washo and Corey O’Brien would be: no more paper ballots.
“We don’t want to go through what we did in the last election — that fiasco,” Mr. Tomasetti said after he and his wife, both Election Day poll watchers in the borough, tried out each of the voting machines under consideration to replace the county’s decertified Advanced Voting Solutions devices.
For three hours at the Hilton Scranton and Conference Center, they and other voters had a chance to offer input to county officials after getting hands-on with four voting machines, plus a pair of optical-scan paper ballot systems, from four different vendors.
Mr. Washo and Mr. O’Brien insisted their search for a new voting system to replace the AVS machines is still a wide-open process — not just which machine or optical-scan sys- tem they’ll choose but also how the deal will be structured...
Voting system choice up in air
BY DAVID SINGLETON
STAFF WRITER
01/24/2008
Why No mention of the many who LIKE PAPER BALLOTS?
http://www.thetimes-tribune.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=19227115&BRD=2185&PAG=461&dept_id=415898&rfi=6
Kuznik noted an injunction was granted by a challenge to the state's DRE electronic voting systems. the injunctio prevents the acquisition of additional DRE paperless electronic voting systems, she said.
WMBS radio host, 'Bob Folta' asked the organization's director about the time process using the paper ballot and eScans.
Kuznik said the process would take a shorter time. With the DREs, or direct recording electronic machines, estimates are even with 3 units operated at the same time, machines are tied up for a longer period when voters take longer than recommended times of some 3-minutes or slightly longer.
"You could have many many voters voting at one time on paper ballots and it takes literally a second or two to process through the scanners," she said.
Asked about cost factor, some estimated $400,000 to supply the minimum 103 scanners, vs the lower estimate per eSlates, Kuznik responded that "is going to be worth the money."
Kuznik said the organization hadn't crunched those numbers, but the state's COSTAR program establishes negotiated prices with the vendors and those are public record. She noted the board of commissioners could sell off some of the DREs in the county's stock, retaining the necessary amount of handicapped accessible machines known as eSlate DAUs.
Studies have shown the cost of implementing paper balloting systems even with the cost of the paper year to year is less, and is more efficient.
VotePA is available on web and members have number of resources there, according to Kuznik. We have members in many counties so we stand ready to help these folks.
KuZnik noted PA it is among the last states to go with paper based system. Many large states are doing this and the non-paper systems seem to be on the way out.
9 Pennsylvania counties use completely paper based and 4 use a mixed system. The organization is working to get more counties to go with paper.
We could be the next Florida or Ohio, and in many counties we won't have these, we may have egg on our faces...
This system will not leave us with hanging chads, very easy to see on paper what their intent was...
Asked about what led to replacement of punchcards, Kuznik said legislation was passed in 2002 in response to horrible problems in 2000 Presidential election. Evidence unfolding over the years has shown the paper stock was inferior, a nightmare situation. Congress offered to pass bill quickly and didn't give a lot of thought to kinds of systems available to replace the punchcard system, forgot to consider the computer security, the identity theft we have, a vote has to be secret so it's that much harder to protect the intention.
Only record we can have is the anonymous paper ballot, there is a physical paper, and some voter made these choices and they have right to have these counted accurately, Kuznik said.
Strongest way to go is paper ballot with an audit trail.
Scanners will be compatible with new federal legislation if it passes. Support the new Rush Holt bill 5036 and request your listeners to contact Rep. John Murtha, and Shuster and get them to co-sponsor.
The federal legislation should it pass may provide the funding for the system Fayette intends to adopt.
More resources
Challenge
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~davide/voting-machines/Complaint-2006-08-15.pdf
http://www.voteraction.org/case/banfieldvcortes
electionline
http://www.pewcenteronthestates.org/electionline.aspx
Voting system choice up in air
BY DAVID SINGLETON
STAFF WRITER
01/24/2008
Jim and Donna Tomasetti couldn’t decide which of the electronic touch-screen devices on display Wednesday at a Lackawanna County-hosted voting machine fair they liked best.
But the Dunmore residents were clear what their recommendation to majority Commissioners Mike Washo and Corey O’Brien would be: no more paper ballots.
“We don’t want to go through what we did in the last election — that fiasco,” Mr. Tomasetti said after he and his wife, both Election Day poll watchers in the borough, tried out each of the voting machines under consideration to replace the county’s decertified Advanced Voting Solutions devices.
For three hours at the Hilton Scranton and Conference Center, they and other voters had a chance to offer input to county officials after getting hands-on with four voting machines, plus a pair of optical-scan paper ballot systems, from four different vendors.
Mr. Washo and Mr. O’Brien insisted their search for a new voting system to replace the AVS machines is still a wide-open process — not just which machine or optical-scan sys- tem they’ll choose but also how the deal will be structured...
Voting system choice up in air
BY DAVID SINGLETON
STAFF WRITER
01/24/2008
Why No mention of the many who LIKE PAPER BALLOTS?
http://www.thetimes-tribune.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=19227115&BRD=2185&PAG=461&dept_id=415898&rfi=6
Thursday, January 24, 2008
O'Reilly: Study Bush Administration Falsehoods: Soros Funded
We knew it. The study which says the Bush Administration lied on key points which resulted in the Iraq War, was produced by an organization funded by no other than George Soros! We speculated on this potential when the study broke, in private, because we didn't have the resources to determine who funded the org.
Comes along Bill O'Reilly tonight, confirming for us. Thanks Bill.
O'Reilly said you won't hear this reported by AP!
"Fund for Independence in Journalism" george soros
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22Fund+for+Independence+in+Journalism%22+george+soros&btnG=Search
O'Reilly asks the evening's panel what was up with the funding of the study org by Soros? Bernard Goldberg... you have to id the funding... Jane... they're an independent organization... they do not have an agenda... let somebody expose the right wing groups and their studies, says Jane...
Captains Quarters reports
Newsbusters Report
History Channel discussion
http://boards.historychannel.com/thread.jspa?threadID=800035753&messageID=800545670
Comes along Bill O'Reilly tonight, confirming for us. Thanks Bill.
O'Reilly said you won't hear this reported by AP!
"Fund for Independence in Journalism" george soros
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22Fund+for+Independence+in+Journalism%22+george+soros&btnG=Search
O'Reilly asks the evening's panel what was up with the funding of the study org by Soros? Bernard Goldberg... you have to id the funding... Jane... they're an independent organization... they do not have an agenda... let somebody expose the right wing groups and their studies, says Jane...
Media Study Claims Bush Administration Lied Hundreds of Times About Iraq
Tuesday, January 22, 2008
WASHINGTON — A study by two nonprofit journalism organizations found that President Bush and top administration officials issued hundreds of false statements about the national security threat from Iraq in the two years following the 2001 terrorist attacks.
The study concluded that the statements "were part of an orchestrated campaign that effectively galvanized public opinion and, in the process, led the nation to war under decidedly false pretenses."
The study was posted Tuesday on the Web site of the Center for Public Integrity, which worked with the Fund for Independence in Journalism. White House spokesman Scott Stanzel said he could not comment on the study because he had not seen it.
The study counted 935 false statements in the two-year period. It found that in speeches, briefings, interviews and other venues, Bush and administration officials stated unequivocally on at least 532 occasions that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction or was trying to produce or obtain them or had links to Al Qaeda or both.
"It is now beyond dispute that Iraq did not possess any weapons of mass destruction or have meaningful ties to Al Qaeda," according to Charles Lewis and Mark Reading-Smith of the Fund for Independence in Journalism staff members, writing an overview of the study. "In short, the Bush administration led the nation to war on the basis of erroneous information that it methodically propagated and that culminated in military action against Iraq on March 19, 2003."
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,324753,00.html
AP Journalism Groups Chart False Administration Statements on Iraq War
Published: January 24, 2008 11:55 PM ET
http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003700131
Captains Quarters reports
January 23, 2008
George Soros Funded Study Says Bush Lied
The AP reports, and the New York Times expands, on a new study by a supposedly "independent" organization that claims to have assembled hundred of "false statements" by the Bush administration in the course of the Iraq war. However, the Center for Public Integrity hardly qualifies as "independent". It gets much of its funding from George Soros, who has thrown millions of dollars behind Democratic political candidates, and explicitly campaigned to defeat George Bush in 2004:
http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/016723.php
Newsbusters Report
AP Reports 'Bush Lied' Study Funded by Ultra-leftist George Soros
By Warner Todd Huston | January 23, 2008 - 10:57 ET
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/warner-todd-huston/2008/01/23/ap-bush-lied-study-not-revealed-funded-george-soros
History Channel discussion
http://boards.historychannel.com/thread.jspa?threadID=800035753&messageID=800545670
Fayette to add precinct paper ballot optical scans
Update Jan. 25 includes links to news articles below...
Two Fayette County commissioners, Chairman Vincent Zapotosky, and Vincent Vicites, opted to initiate a plan to acquire paper ballot optical scan - eScan - to amount to one for each voting precinct, with a few extras, and make provisions for a way to scale back the county's direct recording electronic (DRE) eSlates, to only meet the federal requirements to provide one handicapped accessible unit per precinct.
The sScans, also marketed by Hart InterCivic, according to the commissioners' report, cost more than the DREs, known as eSlates. Discussion included a plan to sell off those DREs that aren't needed to meet federal HAVA regulations.
Both presented a few minutes of reasoning for the option to consider a plan to move forward to acquire the paper ballots with the optical scans.
The original agenda item was phrased to consider purchase of additional eSlates, or another voting system.
Commissioner Angela Zimmerlink made a motion to purchase the eSlates, but the motion died for lack of a second.
Hopefully, as the meeting was videotaped by local news media, a copy of the meeting will be broadcast soon so we can better report what all was said. We may obtain a copy of the meeting's unedited audio-minutes...
Net the Truth Online
News Links
Two Fayette County commissioners, Chairman Vincent Zapotosky, and Vincent Vicites, opted to initiate a plan to acquire paper ballot optical scan - eScan - to amount to one for each voting precinct, with a few extras, and make provisions for a way to scale back the county's direct recording electronic (DRE) eSlates, to only meet the federal requirements to provide one handicapped accessible unit per precinct.
The sScans, also marketed by Hart InterCivic, according to the commissioners' report, cost more than the DREs, known as eSlates. Discussion included a plan to sell off those DREs that aren't needed to meet federal HAVA regulations.
Both presented a few minutes of reasoning for the option to consider a plan to move forward to acquire the paper ballots with the optical scans.
The original agenda item was phrased to consider purchase of additional eSlates, or another voting system.
Commissioner Angela Zimmerlink made a motion to purchase the eSlates, but the motion died for lack of a second.
Hopefully, as the meeting was videotaped by local news media, a copy of the meeting will be broadcast soon so we can better report what all was said. We may obtain a copy of the meeting's unedited audio-minutes...
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Paper ballot voting system may be purchased
By Amy Zalar, Herald-Standard
01/25/2008
Updated 01/24/2008 09:00:22 PM EST
Voters in Fayette County unhappy with the electronic voting system in place for the past few elections may have an option in November, although the issue of long lines at the polls may not be addressed prior to the April 22 primary.
Although several voting machine options were discussed during Thursday's commissioners meeting, the end result was a motion to formulate a plan that could mean the future purchase of a paper ballot voting system.
Commission Chairman Vincent Zapotosky and Commissioner Vincent A. Vicites approved a motion to develop a plan to purchase eScan machines from Hart Intercivic. Commissioner Angela M. Zimmerlink voted against the action, instead making a motion to purchase 50 additional eSlate machines with the money the commissioners previously set aside for such a purchase.
The motion to purchase addition eSlate machines did not receive a second. Zapotosky said he thinks such a purchase would be throwing good money away.
Vicites said he has been doing a lot of research for the past couple weeks, specifically regarding the eSlate electronic dial machine as compared to the eScan paper ballot system.
Vicites said he called a couple counties that use both systems and received positive comments.
"I favor at this point going with the eScan system," Vicites said.
Vicites added that the eScan is more expensive than the eSlate machines, and a plan would have to be formulated how to make up the difference. The county budgeted $170,000 to purchase 55 new eSlate machines, but Vicites said the necessary number of eScan machines would cost about $472,000, for a difference of $300,000.
Zapotosky said he never has been a fan of the eSlate system.
"The question is, "Do we put a cost on the greatest right we have as a citizen?'" Zapotosky said.
http://www.heraldstandard.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=19230804&BRD=2280&PAG=461&dept_id=480247&rfi=6
Fayette studies different types of voting machines
By Mary Pickels
TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Friday, January 25, 2008
After a lengthy discussion Thursday, Fayette County commissioners agreed to formulate a plan to purchase more and possibly different voting machines.
But it is unknown if machines can be leased in time for the April 22 primary.
Two weeks ago, commissioners considered ordering additional eSlate electronic voting machines in an effort to eliminate long waits at some precincts.
But they also agreed to consider Uniontown resident's ... suggestion that the county buy electronic voting machines that scan paper ballots.
The eScan machines allow for a paper record of each vote and can be used in conjunction with the eSlate machines...
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribunereview/news/fayette/s_549221.html
Hillary Clinton: Her Slipperyness: Chapter Song & Dance
Hillary Clinton: Her Slipperyness. The next chapter unfolds.
Song and Dance.
Update:
Bill Clinton, former President of the United States, current husband of Hillary Clinton, on the campaign trail. Not his own campaign, readers, he can't run again for President of the United States, at least not as a separate candidate. He was already elected to the office of the Presidency twice, two terms. According to the Constitution, the President's term is 4 years, and you get two terms.
We're digging to determine whether the President can be named as a Vice President, not appearing on any ballots in any states beforehand, or someone else's name could have appeared with Hillary's but that person is taken ill and another has to be named...
It's Bill Clinton's wife running, Hillary Clinton, tagged Her Slipperyness back when she didn't answer fully questions about New York Governor's plan to give state driver's licenses to illegal aliens.
Her Slipperyness continues dancing around several issues. We'll highlight those periodically.
For now, Bill Clinton goes out around the country throwing out charge after charge against Hillary's closes competitor, Senator Barack Obama.
You heard the one about "fairy tale" right?
You heard the one about how Obama believes the Republicans were the party of ideas... right?
Readers, those weren't Bill Clinton's fault, according to Bill, the media is to blame for keeping this thing going... Obama, yes, readers, Obama throws out the misinfo, and Obama is the hit man, and the media, the media keeps this going between Obama and me.
Yesterday, Bill lashed out at a CNN reporter, after his appearance before a crowd which kept him talking for 2 hours. He blasted the reporter, right on camera...
They just turn Bill's own words against his poor little old wifey.
Thanks for youtube we can see for outselves the crybaby at work.
New York is coming down the road, readers. Yes it is. And who will vote for Hillary Clinton after seeing Bill Clinton whine and whine about the media is making him do it. Who will vote for Hillary Clinton when she brings out unsupportable slogans like Obama had ties to a slum lord in Chicago back when Obama was a freshman lawyer?
Who will vote for Hillary Clinton when her old baggage is brought out from under the rug and vintage cedar chests...
Readers, just do a search of Hillary Clinton $100,000 futures.
Just do a search of Hillary Clinton "billing records."
We'll save our report for a follow-up Chapter. Think up a catchy title.
Obama accused of 'hit job' in toxic White House race
by Alain Jean-Robert
Thu Jan 24, 1:07 AM ET
ROCK HILL, South Carolina (AFP) - A poisonous new exchange erupted on the Democratic campaign trail Wednesday as former president Bill Clinton accused his wife's chief rival Barack Obama of a political "hit job."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080124/ts_alt_afp/usvote2008_080124055521
Song and Dance.
Update:
WSJ Peggy Noonan "Breaking Up Is Hard to Do": Here is William Greider in The Nation, the venerable left-liberal magazine. The Clintons are "high minded" on the surface but "smarmily duplicitous underneath, meanwhile jabbing hard at the groin area. They are a slippery pair and come as a package. The nation is at fair risk of getting them back in the White House for four years."
That, again, is from one of the premier liberal journals in the United States. It is exactly what conservatives have been saying for a decade. This may mark a certain coming together of the thoughtful on both sides. The Clintons, uniters at last.
http://online.wsj.com/article/declarations.html
Bill Clinton, former President of the United States, current husband of Hillary Clinton, on the campaign trail. Not his own campaign, readers, he can't run again for President of the United States, at least not as a separate candidate. He was already elected to the office of the Presidency twice, two terms. According to the Constitution, the President's term is 4 years, and you get two terms.
We're digging to determine whether the President can be named as a Vice President, not appearing on any ballots in any states beforehand, or someone else's name could have appeared with Hillary's but that person is taken ill and another has to be named...
It's Bill Clinton's wife running, Hillary Clinton, tagged Her Slipperyness back when she didn't answer fully questions about New York Governor's plan to give state driver's licenses to illegal aliens.
Her Slipperyness continues dancing around several issues. We'll highlight those periodically.
For now, Bill Clinton goes out around the country throwing out charge after charge against Hillary's closes competitor, Senator Barack Obama.
You heard the one about "fairy tale" right?
You heard the one about how Obama believes the Republicans were the party of ideas... right?
Readers, those weren't Bill Clinton's fault, according to Bill, the media is to blame for keeping this thing going... Obama, yes, readers, Obama throws out the misinfo, and Obama is the hit man, and the media, the media keeps this going between Obama and me.
Yesterday, Bill lashed out at a CNN reporter, after his appearance before a crowd which kept him talking for 2 hours. He blasted the reporter, right on camera...
They just turn Bill's own words against his poor little old wifey.
Thanks for youtube we can see for outselves the crybaby at work.
New York is coming down the road, readers. Yes it is. And who will vote for Hillary Clinton after seeing Bill Clinton whine and whine about the media is making him do it. Who will vote for Hillary Clinton when she brings out unsupportable slogans like Obama had ties to a slum lord in Chicago back when Obama was a freshman lawyer?
Who will vote for Hillary Clinton when her old baggage is brought out from under the rug and vintage cedar chests...
Readers, just do a search of Hillary Clinton $100,000 futures.
Just do a search of Hillary Clinton "billing records."
We'll save our report for a follow-up Chapter. Think up a catchy title.
Obama accused of 'hit job' in toxic White House race
by Alain Jean-Robert
Thu Jan 24, 1:07 AM ET
ROCK HILL, South Carolina (AFP) - A poisonous new exchange erupted on the Democratic campaign trail Wednesday as former president Bill Clinton accused his wife's chief rival Barack Obama of a political "hit job."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080124/ts_alt_afp/usvote2008_080124055521
Glenn Beck: Study: Hurricanes Decreased by Global Warming
During the last segment of his program y'day, Glenn Beck spills the news about global warming study showing a reductio of hurricanes in United States, not an increase in hurricanes due to global warming...
A quick search...
via PHX news.com
http://www.phxnews.com/fullstory.php?article=56197
Global warming reducing hurricanes in U.S., report says
By Martin Merzer
The Miami Herald
MIAMI — Intensifying one of the hottest debates in science, a new report concludes that global warming is diminishing the number of hurricanes that strike Florida and the rest of the United States.
The study found that the planet's oceans have been warming for more than a century. No surprise there, but this may be: Those warmer oceans are producing stronger crosswinds that tend to suppress the development and growth of hurricanes, the scientists said.
"We found a gentle decrease in the trend of U.S. landfalling hurricanes as global oceans warmed up," said Chunzai Wang, an oceanographer and climate scientist at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.
Some previous studies found that global warming was increasing the number and intensity of hurricanes, a conclusion that supported the conventional wisdom that warmer seas automatically turbocharge hurricane development.
The new study, by Wang and Sang-Ki Lee of the University of Miami, will be published today in the journal Geophysical Research Letters.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2004139813_oceans23.html
A quick search...
via PHX news.com
http://www.phxnews.com/fullstory.php?article=56197
Global warming reducing hurricanes in U.S., report says
By Martin Merzer
The Miami Herald
MIAMI — Intensifying one of the hottest debates in science, a new report concludes that global warming is diminishing the number of hurricanes that strike Florida and the rest of the United States.
The study found that the planet's oceans have been warming for more than a century. No surprise there, but this may be: Those warmer oceans are producing stronger crosswinds that tend to suppress the development and growth of hurricanes, the scientists said.
"We found a gentle decrease in the trend of U.S. landfalling hurricanes as global oceans warmed up," said Chunzai Wang, an oceanographer and climate scientist at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.
Some previous studies found that global warming was increasing the number and intensity of hurricanes, a conclusion that supported the conventional wisdom that warmer seas automatically turbocharge hurricane development.
The new study, by Wang and Sang-Ki Lee of the University of Miami, will be published today in the journal Geophysical Research Letters.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2004139813_oceans23.html
Wednesday, January 23, 2008
South Carolina Polls Show Obama in lead
Update: Track south Carolina results
http://abcnews.go.com/politics/elections/state?state=SC&ref=ipb
Obama 43 percent Hillary Clinton 25 percent Edwards 15 percent (Reuters)
Florida tracking and more
http://www.pollster.com/
Tracking results of polls nationwide
http://www.usaelectionpolls.com/2008/candidates/Barack-Obama.html
http://abcnews.go.com/politics/elections/state?state=SC&ref=ipb
Obama 43 percent Hillary Clinton 25 percent Edwards 15 percent (Reuters)
January 23, 2008
Polls show Obama heading for South Carolina win
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article3238696.ece
Florida tracking and more
http://www.pollster.com/
Tracking results of polls nationwide
http://www.usaelectionpolls.com/2008/candidates/Barack-Obama.html
Plan would bar linking bonuses to pensions
Democrat's amendment would block future, past salary credits Wednesday, January 23, 2008BY JAN MURPHYOf The Patriot-News
Legislative staffers are under scrutiny for their bonuses, and now it is becoming apparent that those bonuses are gifts that could keep on giving in retirement.
Top legislative officials confirm that state House and Senate employees' bonuses will count toward their pensions. State Rep. Sean Ramaley, an Allegheny County Democrat, wants to prevent that from happening.
Ramaley wants to amend a Senate-passed bill to ban most state government bonuses. That bill awaits action in the House State Government Committee.
http://www.pennlive.com/news/patriotnews/index.ssf?/base/news/1201049714218210.xml&coll=1
PA County: Tax Assessment Appeals Review by Independent Process
Update: The board of commissioners appointed an independent panel to hear assessment appeals on a vote of the two Democratic board members, Vincent Victites and Chairman, Vincent Zapotosky.
Board to appoint tax assessment appeals board. That three-panel board will be scheduled to hear testimony from individuals who own business or residential properties. The commissioners are slated to vote to appoint either themselves, or an independent body. Opinion among the board of commissioners may be divided on this one. In the last administration, the board had a mix. They kept themselves in the process, and they appointed additional groups to review and hear some over 10,000 appeals to the county tax assessments on property.
The new administration of commissioners should now remove themselves from the process.
Another re-evaluation of properties will be completed in about a year, in 2009, during the term of the current administration. There may not be an equal amount of appeals to those conducted in the past, but the appeals will continue to consist of those presented by large corporations who own property in the county and family farmers and middle-income persons who own residences and small businesses.
As the county is largely funded through real-estate property taxes, and the tax assessment office under control of the commissioners, ultimately, has a hand in evaluating those properties for tax assessment purposes, there is simply put built-in incentive for the county to want to retain as many large assessments as allowable by law.
In fact, the county department of tax assessment is this time around actually conducting the re-evaluation process, unlike the situation beginning around year 2000. An outside group hired by the board of commissioners conducted the re-evaluations.
In appeals, the county (attorney for the tax assessment office) will argue to retain the assessment or evaluation set by way of the tax assessment office conducting the re-assessments.
That process itself is fraught with potential conflicts, at least for setting potentially higher estimates on large "improved" properties and those owned by the wealthy or corporations.
There may be political motive on the other hand to lower the assessments of the little people upfront, and potential motive for the non-independent board, that consisting of commissioners, to lower the assessment in the appeal for little Jack and little Jill and save the family farm.
There is no such incentive with an independent board consisting of members who have nothing to lose politically or in the way of revenues to the county, or gain in the way of votes from the little guy whose property tax was lowered by $100 or so.
A conflict might arise in addition pertaining to the county's new code which includes some latitude for improvements to "historical" properties. Faced with an appeal from such, the commissioners may be tempted to "protect" the historical property and reduce the tax assessment to further such improvements.
The board should revert back to appointing an independent board which is once-removed from any such potential or even the appearance of potential for political decisions.
Net the Truth Online
Board to appoint tax assessment appeals board. That three-panel board will be scheduled to hear testimony from individuals who own business or residential properties. The commissioners are slated to vote to appoint either themselves, or an independent body. Opinion among the board of commissioners may be divided on this one. In the last administration, the board had a mix. They kept themselves in the process, and they appointed additional groups to review and hear some over 10,000 appeals to the county tax assessments on property.
The new administration of commissioners should now remove themselves from the process.
Another re-evaluation of properties will be completed in about a year, in 2009, during the term of the current administration. There may not be an equal amount of appeals to those conducted in the past, but the appeals will continue to consist of those presented by large corporations who own property in the county and family farmers and middle-income persons who own residences and small businesses.
As the county is largely funded through real-estate property taxes, and the tax assessment office under control of the commissioners, ultimately, has a hand in evaluating those properties for tax assessment purposes, there is simply put built-in incentive for the county to want to retain as many large assessments as allowable by law.
In fact, the county department of tax assessment is this time around actually conducting the re-evaluation process, unlike the situation beginning around year 2000. An outside group hired by the board of commissioners conducted the re-evaluations.
In appeals, the county (attorney for the tax assessment office) will argue to retain the assessment or evaluation set by way of the tax assessment office conducting the re-assessments.
That process itself is fraught with potential conflicts, at least for setting potentially higher estimates on large "improved" properties and those owned by the wealthy or corporations.
There may be political motive on the other hand to lower the assessments of the little people upfront, and potential motive for the non-independent board, that consisting of commissioners, to lower the assessment in the appeal for little Jack and little Jill and save the family farm.
There is no such incentive with an independent board consisting of members who have nothing to lose politically or in the way of revenues to the county, or gain in the way of votes from the little guy whose property tax was lowered by $100 or so.
A conflict might arise in addition pertaining to the county's new code which includes some latitude for improvements to "historical" properties. Faced with an appeal from such, the commissioners may be tempted to "protect" the historical property and reduce the tax assessment to further such improvements.
The board should revert back to appointing an independent board which is once-removed from any such potential or even the appearance of potential for political decisions.
Net the Truth Online
New Fayette appeal board likely
By Mary Pickels
TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Wednesday, January 23, 2008
Fayette County Chairman Vincent Zapotosky likely will be the tie-breaker Thursday, when the three county commissioners will decide whether to continue hearing tax assessment appeals themselves or to appoint an independent board.
The commissioners are leaning 2-1 for establishing the independent body.
The appeals board hears and rules on property owners' appeals regarding their properties' assessed value. Assessed value determines property taxes.
In 2004, Commissioner Angela Zimmerlink and former Commissioner Joseph A. Hardy III voted that the commissioners would serve as the appeals board. Commissioner Vincent Vicites at that time voted against the measure, preferring to keep an independent board.
That preference continues, Vicites said after a commissioners' agenda meeting Tuesday. Only this time, Vicites will probably have the support of Zapotosky, a fellow Democrat who took office in January.
Zimmerlink said yesterday that she still believes appeal hearings are part of the commissioners' role.
"I'm leaning toward independent" members, Zapotosky said.
Three appointees would each serve a four-year term on the board.
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribunereview/news/fayette/s_548821.html
Commissioners to determine composition of tax panel
By Amy Zalar, Herald-Standard
01/21/2008
Updated 01/22/2008 12:06:05 AM EST
The three Fayette County commissioners will decide next week if they want to continue to serve as the tax assessment appeals board for the next four years or if they will appoint others to make up the board.
The tax assessment appeals board is responsible for hearing and ruling on appeals by property owners regarding the assessed value of their properties, which affects how much they pay in property taxes.
For the past four years, former Commissioner Joseph A. Hardy III and Commissioners Vincent A. Vicites and Angela M. Zimmerlink heard the appeals. When the commissioners voted to take on that role in early 2004, Hardy and Zimmerlink voted in favor of it and Vicites voted against it. Vicites wanted to keep an independent board as had been done when the county undertook a property tax reassessment, the first in decades.
Because Vicites and Zimmerlink are still in office and are of different opinions, commission Chairman Vincent Zapotosky will be the deciding vote on the matter when it comes up at the commissioner's agenda and regular monthly meetings on Tuesday and Thursday, respectively.
Zimmerlink said Friday that her position hasn't changed since she first took office in early 2004.
"Four years ago, I thought this function could be performed by the commissioners and I haven't changed my mind," she said.
"Fellow commissioners may look to reverting back to a board which the commissioners appoint, but as many know, just because it is called an independent board does not mean there aren't political influences," Zimmerlink said...
http://www.heraldstandard.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=19216289&BRD=2280&PAG=461&dept_id=480247&rfi=6
County studies vehicle donation
By Amy Zalar, Herald-Standard
01/23/2008
The commissioners also are slated to take action Thursday regarding whether they will serve as the tax assessment appeals board for the next four years or appoint an independent board to hear the appeals. The board determines how much a property owner is charged in property taxes. For the last four years, the commissioners have served in that capacity, but it was an independent board the prior four years.
Zimmerlink is in favor of the commissioners handling the duties, Vicites is in favor of an independent board and Zapotosky has not yet made his decision known.
Fayette County chief assessor James A. Hercik said the county is in the midst of a reassessment, and he doesn't know how many appeals will be filed. The last time the county went through a property reassessment - the first in more than 40 years - there were 10,000 appeals, Hercik said.
Hercik said he doesn't anticipate more than 10 to 15 days of hearings this year, but can't guess how many appeals would be heard in 2009.
Hercik said in the spring of 2009, the reassessment notices will be sent to property owners and the appeals will be held in the summer and fall, and must be completed before Oct. 31, 2009, before the new values take affect in Jan. 1, 2010.
http://www.heraldstandard.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=19222300&BRD=2280&PAG=461&dept_id=480247&rfi=6
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