Case may move forward, but based on Obama's father's British citizenship?
Nobody is citing Eugene Volokh's comments in the Chicago Tribune article.
Isn't it clear, Obama Jr. must be proven to have been born outside the United States because if as Obama has already shown a certificate of live birth which shows location of Hawaii as his birthplace - then by virtue of later Congressional action anyone born after 1952 of at least one parent who was a U.S. citizen is automatically a citizen of the U.S.
It wouldn't matter if the father from Kenya had British citizenship because Kenya was a British subject at the time. Why would it matter because British law does not apply in the United States. Good grief.
Furthermore, let's say the argument is used Obama's mother wasn't herself born in the United States? Does anyone believe that? Really, the US Constitution takes precedence over any state laws, so even if Hawaiian law said a person had to live in US for five years or whatever before being recognized as a citizen that state law would not take precedence over the Constitution. Congress already acted and Obama is covered as is anyone else under that scenario.
In addition, what are the naysayers claiming the Founding Framers designed by including the phrasing 'natural born' citizen as an eligibility requirement for the Presidency?
It's not as if Obama was raised in another country for 18 years then moved to the United States and did not seek to enter the political field at the state level in his 30s.
Born in the United States in Honolulu of a University student who was a few months shy of her 19th birthday should be enough for most, especially since there is no proof or evidence Obama was born in Kenya in Mombasa Hospital. There's supposition, but no proof.
It's not as if Obama was a citizen of another country like Arnold Swartzenagger for most of his life and obviously was not born in the US of one US citizen!
It's not as if Obama's loyalties lie elsewhere because he's not a U.S. citizen and can't be trusted. Millions upon millions of voters believe he can be trusted and a good bit moreso voted that way than for the Republican ticket John McCain and who-was-she Sarah Palin.
The Supreme Court as we said could consider what the Electoral College powers might be, but even that could be an intrusion into EC domain. Though it would be interesting if the SC would determine the EC has unlimited power and could indeed request from Obama or any other President-Elect whatever they want, even 'testimony' about whatever, say Blagojevich and what Obama knew when?
Update It's difficult to determine what the Supreme Court is going to consider if anything Friday Dec. 12 there may be some technicality involved in the 'full court' receiving the 'case' for some sort of preliminary discussion or consideration. It's probably a matter of book-keeping to keep 'similar' but 'not exact' cases from getting to the same point of consideration.
Net the Truth Online
Supreme Court refers Obama natural born citizen question and moves forward
For those of you who said the Supreme Court wouldn't hear the case, well, you're wrong...As of 7:20 PM tonight...
Cort Wrotnowski’s emergency application for a stay and/or injunction as to the Electoral College meeting on Dec. 15 was today referred to the full Court by the Honorable Associate Justice Anotonin Scalia. It has been distributed for Conference of Friday December 12. The official case name is WROTNOWSKI v. BYSIEWICZ, United States Supreme Court Docket No. 08A469.
http://illinoisreview.typepad.com/illinoisreview/2008/12/supreme-court-h.html
Update
AP updated 10:12 a.m. ET, Mon., Dec. 8, 2008
WASHINGTON - The Supreme Court has turned down an emergency appeal from a New Jersey man who says President-elect Barack Obama is ineligible to be president because he was a British subject at birth.
The court did not comment on its order Monday rejecting the call by Leo Donofrio of East Brunswick, N.J., to intervene in the presidential election.
Donofrio says that since Obama had dual nationality at birth — his mother was American and his Kenyan father at the time was a British subject — he cannot possibly be a "natural born citizen," one of the requirements the Constitution lists for eligibility to be president.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28111773/
Maybe next week, a decision to hear or not to hear the legal challenge will be revealed...
Supreme Court to Consider Obama Citizenship Case
Reported by: RNS
Saturday, Dec 6, 2008 @03:30pm CST
The decision on granting a hearing challenging President-elect Barack Obama's U.S. citizenship is still pending.
The "Washington Times" reports that the U.S. Supreme Court held a private conference Friday morning to discuss whether to take up a lawsuit but it was not on the list of court orders for the day.
According to the "Times" a Supreme Court spokesman said the decision to hear the case will most likely be announced next week.
If four of the nine justices vote to hear the case, oral arguments could be scheduled.
The case, one of several that has been filed over the issue, has been fueled by Internet rumors and stories about the President-elect's birth and heritage.
The Obama campaign has maintained that he was born in Hawaii, has an authentic birth certificate, and is a natural-born U.S. citizen.
Critics, however, say the Obama campaign has failed to produce the authentic birth certificate and has blocked access to that document as well as college transcripts from Occidental College and Harvard.
http://arkansasmatters.com/content/fulltext/news/?cid=161461
UAfro reporting Justice Clarence Thomas asked the Justices/Court to consider the request of a East Brunswick attorney who has filed a lawsuit challenging President-elect Barack Obama's eligibility to become President...
AFRO also discovered the retired attorney is a contributor to a website promoting the action, naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com
AFRO reports Thomas took up the request Nov. 19 and a conference has been set for Dec. 5.
Read more in the AFRO piece, it explains quite a bit how the situation arose...
Thomas refers a previously rejected case challenging Obama eligibility
http://www.afro.com/tabid/456/itemid/2273/Thomas-breaks-custom-forces-court-to-look-at-Obam.aspx
(Interesting that Thomas submitted the previously rejected case challenging Obama eligibility since Obama was asked during the interview on issue of Religion in American Politics by a nationally known pastor who he would not have appointed to Supreme Court, Obama mentioned Scalia and Thomas!
You Tube Obama : Supreme Court Justices
...one of duties of SC is to guard against encroachment of executive branch on 'other branches' more power given to President than I think the Constitution originally intended!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3px9jvG0N8
Conservatives Slam Obama's Answer About Supreme Court Justices at Saddleback Forum
A former law clerk for Clarence Thomas is leading a pack of critics who say Barack Obama's comments about the Supreme Court justice reveal the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee's ignorance and misunderstanding of the Constitution.
FOXNews.com Monday, August 18, 2008
A weekend event at the 22,000-member Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, Calif., was meant to give both Obama and John McCain a chance to address questions of importance to the large evangelical community. Church Pastor Rick Warren, known for his bestselling book "The Purpose-Driven Life," posed the series of questions to each candidate, which were aimed at getting to their personalities, foibles and leadership styles.
During the symposium, Obama said he would not have nominated Thomas to the bench because "I don't think that he was a strong enough jurist or legal thinker at the time for that elevation. Setting aside the fact that I profoundly disagree with his interpretation of a lot of the Constitution."
Click here to see many of the question-and-answer segments at the Saddleback forum.
Obama then added that he would not have nominated Justice Antonin Scalia because they disagree, not because of any intellectual deficiencies.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/elections/2008/08/18/conservatives-slam-obamas-answer-about-supreme-court-justices-at-saddleback-forum/
Maybe another Justice than Justice Souter will provide the second to Thomas' motion to hear the case because according to the AFRO article republished, Souter initially rejected the case! Scalia? and how many of them are actually needed, a quorum? a majority of those who show up?
Justice Thomas Forces Supreme Court to Probe Obama's Citizenship
Afro America Newspaper , News Report, James Wright, Posted: Dec 04, 2008
(December 3, 2008) - In a highly unusual move, U.S. Associate Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas has asked his colleagues on the court to consider the request of an East Brunswick, N.J. attorney who has filed a lawsuit challenging President-elect Barack Obama’s status as a United States citizen.
Thomas’s action took place after Justice David Souter had rejected a petition known as an application for a stay of writ of certiorari that asked the court to prevent the meeting of the Electoral College on Dec. 15, which will certify Obama as the 44th president of the United States and its first African-American president.
The court has scheduled a Dec. 5 conference on the writ -- just 10 days before the Electoral College meets.
The high court’s only African American is bringing the matter to his colleagues as a result of the writ that was filed by attorney Leo Donofrio. Donofrio sued the New Jersey Secretary of State Nina Wells, contending that Obama was not qualified to be on the state’s presidential ballot because of Donofrio’s own questions about Obama citizenship.
http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=91f3d495aef4a4952d363ab87b52c6a0&from=rss
Justice Thomas on Barack Obama
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OSe2uTyOsY&NR=1
Net the Truth Online (update 10:30 a.m.)
Suit contesting Barack Obama's citizenship heads to U.S. Supreme Court today
Justices will decide whether to consider the case
By James Janega | Tribune reporter
6:30 AM CST, December 5, 2008
The U.S. Supreme Court will consider today whether to take up a lawsuit challenging President-elect Barack Obama's U.S. citizenship, a continuation of a New Jersey case embraced by some opponents of Obama's election.
The meeting of justices will coincide with a vigil by the filer's supporters in Washington on the steps of the nation's highest court.
The suit originally sought to stay the election, and was filed on behalf of Leo Donofrio against New Jersey Secretary of State Nina Mitchell Wells.
Legal experts say the appeal has little chance of succeeding, despite appearing on the court's schedule. Legal records show it is only the tip of an iceberg of nationwide efforts seeking to derail Obama's election over accusations that he either wasn't born a U.S. citizen or that he later renounced his citizenship in Indonesia.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/obama/chi-obama-birth-certificatedec04,0,664988.story
Note: Jenega also penned the article
Obama birth certificate rumor debunked James Janega Tribune reporter October 30, 2008
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-birth-certificate-30-oct30,0,1742172.story?track=rss
Wednesday, November 26, 2008
World Net Daily Ignores Janega and Volokh on Obama Eligibility
http://netthetruthonline.blogspot.com/2008/11/world-net-daily-ignores-janega-and.html
MSNBC and CNN reporting U.S. Supreme Court 'set' to hear a case regarding Barack Obama proof of natural born citizenship.
CNN American Morning report John Sneider and another reporter:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/2008.12.05.html
Unofficial
The question of Obama's citizenship is set to be heard in the Supreme Court - it rests on the fact Obama's father a Kenyan was subject to British law in 1961 and possessed British citizenship.
The father's citizenship passed on to the son, according to the CNN report.
One of the CNN reports noted Obama was born in the United States to a United States citizen, his mother, (Stanley Ann Dunham, and anyone born in the United States automatically becomes a citizen.
The report posed then whether Obama had dual citizenship at the time of his birth in 1961, but noted the Kenyan citizenship expired in 1980 or so.
MSNBC reporting the Supreme Court may take up the question put to them in a case as early as today reqarding Barack Obama's eligibility to take the office of President.
Unofficial
If native born you were a natural-born citizen, most scholars agree SC is not going to weigh in and overturn the votes of millions of people... they see this a political question... where most confusion... lawsuits popped up around country... fact is federal courts don't entertain lawsuit from anybody... want to know how this affects you personally, that's unlikely to be shown, according to Peter... reporting for MSNBC (9:47 a.m.)(10:20 a.m.)
Pete bets any amount of money the SC will not take this case up today or anytime.
end
See our other posts on the entire situation including Joseph Farah's petitition drive to force Obama to 'show' or release his original long-form birth certificate.
Wednesday, November 26, 2008
World Net Daily Ignores Janega and Volokh on Obama Eligibility
http://netthetruthonline.blogspot.com/2008/11/world-net-daily-ignores-janega-and.html
We're not adverse to having the Supreme court hear positions based in law whether Obama actually possessed dual citizenship at the time of his birth. That is interesting, but it is more likely than not, the Supremes will determine United States law takes precedence over the laws of another nation. In this case, British law regarding a British colony.
This same question came up as we pointed out in the Anna Nicole Smith case of baby Danielyn born outside the United States. Danielyn was a question at the time, and we covered that extensively precisely because of the citizenship question. search our site for how that was resolved.
Joseph Farah and others have claimed more than dual-citizenship rests at the heart of questions surrounding Obama's birth.
They've dismissed the material presented by Eugene Volokh highlighted in an article in the Chicago Tribune.
Obama birth certificate rumor debunked James Janega Tribune reporter October 30, 2008
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-birth-certificate-30-oct30,0,1742172.story?track=rss
Our contention even if the SC Justices heard arguments, is it's doubtful the SC Justices will determine Obama would have to produce anything more than is actually required traditionally and/or currently for candidates for the Presidency to produce or what has already been presented as proof of ability to be a candidate for the Presidency of the U.S. under a political party banner/campaign.
Our Constitutional foundation rests on equality - all being treated equally under the law of our land.
If all candidates only had to show birthplace in the United States in order to become a candidate under a qualifying political party - or in John McCain's case the Panama Canal Zone (see details of why his birthplace was a non-issue) then requiring another such Presidential candidate to produce something more wouldn't be equality.
In actuality, however, Obama is President-Elect, a different classification altogether from a candidate of a political party seeking the office. How were other President-elects treated under the law after elected in duly-conducted - and in states'-certified elections?
But, the Electoral College is a different matter as well.
Obama after all was tallied acquired an overwhelming Electoral College majority 365
http://www.polltrack.com/post/501-electoral-college-stands-tentatively-at-obama-365-to-mccain-173
http://www.electoral-vote.com/
All a candidate needs are 270
The Justices could hear arguments including the potential the Electoral College has unlimited powers, and can require production of anything and everything to determine the 'qualifications' of a President-elect before casting votes along the lines of the electors of the states, or not.
That would be worth the attention of the Justices. Just how much power do Electoral College electors have in and of themselves? Can the Electoral College members require Barack Obama II at the time of their own gathering December 15th to produce his long-form birth certificate, ask for witnesses such as a Kenyan grandmother, etc. to appear before them in a grilling session?
All in the interest of providing EC members with additional material than the collective voice by majority vote of United States voters?
Our preference would be that the Supremes determine only that the Electoral College can make its own determinations in whatever manner members decide.
That would be the most valuable aspect of the effort to determine Obama's citizenship, and/or eligibility, if the EC members determine that is germaine to Obama's seating as President by the EC vote.
That would put the Electoral College in the attention of the public, who unfortunately a majority remain simply unaware of its existence, and power and duty.
It may be a very rare occurrence for the EC members to vote against the choice of the voting citizens, but such can happen and in fact it is the duty of the Electoral College to consider disqualification for the office of the Presidency as well as qualifications for the office of the Presidency.
And every single voter should be aware when voting in a presidential election, one is not voting for the candidate for that office, but actually for Electoral College members.
While we may not be familiar with their names, they exist, and they have the obligation to cast a vote for other than the people's choice if the members (in majority) determine that choice is not one who will carry out his/her Constitutional duties, or who in some other way is unqualified to serve as President.
It's too bad as well we don't have a familiarity with the process of Impeachment of a sitting President who fails to carry out his Constitutional duties.
We could go back to many past Presidents who have squandered our public trust on not only illegal wars, but undeclared wars as Constitutionally provided must be declared as such by congress, intrusion into the domestic affairs of foreign governments, giving billions upon billions of our taxpayer dollars to other countries, most of which use resources we've supplied directly against our own interests (if that isn't treason, what is) and abiding by United Nations and international agreements which have not been enacted as treaties.
That's all aside from all of the personal intrusions Presidents have authorized with executive orders and other measures we're learning about called executive directives, etc. Search our site for posts along those lines.
We'd have to do a bit more research but we'd go back as far as at least Abraham Lincoln, who though a great President, a President who nonetheless suspended the writ of habeas corpus, and for that should have been subject to the impeachment process.
He may not have actually been impeached, but he along with every President following should have been subject to that process when utilizing unconstitutional 'executive directives' and making legislation or law in such as 'executive orders.'
(even moreso all of Congress should be subject to recall when enacting unconstitutional international binding agreements, adopting and continuing the so-called War Powers Act which guts Congress' sole power to declare War, and accepting so-called international law as applicable to United States law, we could go on)
Sadly, the public continues to remain negligent on what the Constitution allows our elected President, Vice President, Congress, and Supreme Court to do, constitutionally.
(An aside, isn't it interesting, John McCain acquired 173 Electoral College votes, so if for some reason Obama should be denied eligibility for President (a stretch) McCain would be almost 100 shy of the magic Electoral College number.
It would be interesting to find out what would happen, but why should we care when there are so many more pressing issues on which to make our collective voices heard.
Issues such as the American Sovereignty Restoration Act. AKA Get US out of UN.
Issues such as continuing to bailout any private financial institution, bank, or business, unconstitutional tax-breaks, tax-free zones, yes federal zones, illegal immigration, and so much more.
Issues such as the devious and unconstitutional Patriot Act/s and its reauthorization.
Issues such as abolishing the unconstitutional Federal Reserve which is unconstitutional according to Congress' duty and obligation to 'coin money' not issue pieces of paper based on nothing more than 'trust' it will all work out in the end.
Net the Truth Online
Suit contesting Barack Obama's citizenship heads to U.S. Supreme Court today
Justices will decide whether to consider the case
By James Janega | Tribune reporter
6:30 AM CST, December 5, 2008
The U.S. Supreme Court will consider today whether to take up a lawsuit challenging President-elect Barack Obama's U.S. citizenship, a continuation of a New Jersey case embraced by some opponents of Obama's election.
The meeting of justices will coincide with a vigil by the filer's supporters in Washington on the steps of the nation's highest court.
The suit originally sought to stay the election, and was filed on behalf of Leo Donofrio against New Jersey Secretary of State Nina Mitchell Wells.
Legal experts say the appeal has little chance of succeeding, despite appearing on the court's schedule. Legal records show it is only the tip of an iceberg of nationwide efforts seeking to derail Obama's election over accusations that he either wasn't born a U.S. citizen or that he later renounced his citizenship in Indonesia.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/obama/chi-obama-birth-certificatedec04,0,664988.story
Related
Will Supreme Court take case on Obama's citizenship?
By JAMES JANEGA
Chicago Tribune
Dec. 3, 2008, 10:07PM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6145787.html
electoral college
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=electoral+college+process&btnG=Search
Lincoln
slavery
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=abraham+lincoln+end+slavery&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln_on_slavery
suspending writs habeas corpus
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=abraham+lincoln+suspend+writ+habeas+corpus&btnG=Search
Related
If Obama Has the Opportunity to Appoint Our Next New Supreme Court Justice, Is He Right that Empathy Should Be A Core Criterion?
By JULIE HILDEN
Wednesday, Nov. 12, 2008
This past February, the Volokh Conspiracy legal blog drew attention to Senator Barack Obama's views on what his ideal Supreme Court nominee would be like, focusing, in particular, on two key comments by Obama:
http://writ.lp.findlaw.com/hilden/20081112.html
Who Would Barack Obama Nominate to the Supreme Court?:
When asked back in a November primary debate to say what kind of Justice he would want to nominate to the Supreme Court, Barack Obama responded:
http://volokh.com/posts/1204053060.shtml
Devvy Kidd a bit leaning to anti-Obamaist
Treachery Inside The
US Supreme Court
Rense.com Exclusive
By Devvy
12-2-8
Leo Donofrio called me on December 1, 2008, with more news regarding treachery inside the U.S. Supreme Court. These lawsuits are challenging Obama's constitutional eligibility to serve as president of these united States of America.
For those unfamiliar with Leo and his lawsuit docketed at the U.S. Supreme Court, please see this news item:
http://www.rense.com/general84/scotus.htm
At the time Leo provided me with the update in the link above, he also informed me there was another case out of Connecticut that he was assisting on and would let me know the details soon. This is the case:
Cort Wrotnowski v. Susan Bysiewicz, Secretary of the State of Connecticut -
http://www.filesend.net/download.php?f=fb6dc015edba6d8ec689b56a06b79d0b
docket no. 08A469
http://origin.www.supremecourtus.gov/docket/08a469.htm
Leo informed me by phone that he wrote the 39 page brief for Cort. It was submitted to the Supreme Court and (no surprise) rejected by Justice Ruth Bader Ginsberg. Perhaps she was asleep when it came across her desk, as that seems to be how she spends her time serving the people of this nation: asleep on the bench.
As is his right, Cort resubmitted to Justice Scalia. This filing is an emergency stay application and should have been addressed immediately. Instead, and this is beyond outrageous: someone inside the Supreme Court referred Cort's over night mail package for anthrax testing!
To say Leo was beyond words in expressing himself over this insanity is an under statement. Leo explained that Cort Wrotnowski is the quintessential example of the average American: married, two children, owns his own health food store and access to any anthrax by Cort is impossible. Not only is it impossible, the idea is preposterous and nothing but a smokescreen.
Why would a clerk do such a thing? We have to remember that Leo's case will be conferenced by all nine supreme court justices, December 5, 2008. Make no mistake about it: this is history in the making. The electoral college votes December 15, 2008. A massive drive has been underway for weeks to reach out to the electoral college delegates in the 35 affected states with the facts about Obama the mystery man.
http://www.rense.com/general84/treach.htm
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