Friday, May 26, 2006

Quick on the Draw


Congressman John Murtha was quick to accuse. Should facts show Murtha's charge Marines "killed innocent Iraqi civilians in cold blood" false, Murtha critics should stand aside, and allow the Democrat Pennsylvania United States representative enough rope to hang himself.

Marines killed Iraqi civilians 'in cold blood': US lawmaker
WASHINGTON (AFP) - A US lawmaker and former Marine colonel accused US Marines of killing innocent Iraqi civilians after a Marine comrade had been killed by a roadside bomb...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060518/wl_mideast_afp/usiraqrightsmarines

Murtha: Marines killed Haditha civilians in cold blood
By Christian LoweTimes staff writer
Rep. John Murtha, an influential Pennsylvania lawmaker and outspoken critic of the war in Iraq, said today Marines had “killed innocent civilians in cold blood” after allegedly responding to a roadside bomb ambush that killed a Marine during a patrol in Haditha, Iraq, Nov. 19.
The incident is still under investigation by the Naval Criminal Investigative Service and Multi-National Forces Iraq.

A March 27 Time magazine report published claims by an Iraqi civil rights group that the Marines barged into houses near the bomb strike, throwing grenades and shooting civilians as they cowered in fear. The report prompted calls for a Pentagon probe.

“It’s much worse than was reported in Time magazine,” Murtha, a Democrat, former Marine colonel and Vietnam war veteran, told reporters on Capitol Hill.

“There was no firefight. There was no [bomb] that killed those innocent people,” Murtha explained, adding there were “about twice as many” Iraqis killed than Time had reported.
No official investigation report has been released by the Pentagon and a spokesman for Murtha was unable to add to the congressman’s remarks

“I do not know where Rep. Murtha is obtaining is information,” said Lt. Col. Sean Gibson, a spokesman for Marine Corps Forces Central Command in Tampa, Fla. “Thoroughness will drive the investigation.”…

http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-1808360.php

Murtha's Republican challenger, Diana Irey is misguided to ask for an apology and state Murtha puts the troops in danger by his lambast.

Irey herself was too quick on the draw and should just let Murtha continue to dis-ass-emble himself. Someone as far gone as Rep. Murtha cannot be rehabilitated.

Campaign 2006: Challenger Irey criticizes Murtha on Iraq comments
Thursday, May 25, 2006By Maeve Reston, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

WASHINGTON - In the first chapter of what is likely to be a blistering campaign, U.S. Rep. John Murtha's Republican challenger, Diana L. Irey, traveled to Washington yesterday to decry Mr. Murtha as one-time patriot who has "lost his way" after his recent comments about a November incident involving U.S. Marines and civilian killings in the city of Haditha, Iraq.

In remarks at the National Press Club, Ms. Irey, a Washington County commissioner, asked Mr. Murtha to apologize for and retract his comments about the incident in Haditha in which 15 unarmed Iraqis and eight insurgents died after a Marine was killed by a roadside bomb.

Though government officials originally said the civilians were killed by the bomb and that the insurgents died after an ensuing firefight, Time Magazine reported in March that witnesses and local officials said the civilians, including women and children, were killed by Marines angry about their colleagues' death. The deaths are still under investigation by the Defense Department.

During a May 17 news conference, Mr. Murtha referenced the incident as he pressed his case to reporters that the U.S. should pull troops out of Iraq. He said a Pentagon investigation would ultimately show that the troops in Haditha "overreacted because of the pressure on them and killed innocent civilians in cold blood."

Mr. Murtha, who has close ties to top defense officials as a retired Marine colonel and the top-ranking Democrat on the House committee that handles defense appropriations, said he had not read the Pentagon report but was basing his information on frequent discussions with "the commanders," he said, "people that know what they're talking about."

Ms. Irey, of Carroll Township, said Mr. Murtha was denying the Marines due process and had put American troops in danger with his remarks...


One report mentions Murtha revealed his sources were “the commanders." The curiosity-challenged media just takes it all in.

Marines Killed Civilians "In Cold Blood"
By Michael Scherer and Mark Benjamin

Senior House Democrat Jack Murtha warns that the details of a reported massacre in Iraq last year will prove "a very bad thing" for the US.

A senior House Democrat with close ties to the military claimed Wednesday that U.S. Marines wantonly killed innocent Iraqi civilians, including women and children, in an early morning raid last November, buttressing a March report by Time.

"Our troops overreacted because of the pressure on them, and they killed innocent civilians in cold blood," said Jack Murtha of Pennsylvania, a decorated Marine Corps veteran who served in Vietnam and is among the most influential Democratic voices on military matters. "This is going to be a very, very bad thing for the United States."

Asked about his sources during a midday briefing on Iraq policy in the Capitol, Murtha confidently replied, "All the information I get, it comes from the commanders, it comes from people who know what they are talking about." Although Murtha said that he had not read any investigative reports by the military on the incident, he stressed, "It's much worse than reported in Time magazine."

The civilian deaths are under review by the Naval Criminal Investigative Service, which is also responsible for the Marine Corps. A Navy spokesman declined to comment on Murtha's claims, saying that the matter is part of an ongoing inquiry. He would also not comment on when the investigation into the incident would be completed.

In March, Time described an incident in the western Iraqi town of Haditha -- the worst alleged case of U.S. troops deliberately killing civilians in Iraq…

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,416816,00.html

Journalists don't press Murtha to provide details and name names.

While USA TODAY's On Deadline Blog accepts anonymous sources, the public should be wary.

USA TODAY
Report to cite Marines

Two of the nation's largest newspapers hit their respective coasts this morning with allegations of U.S. military killings and a cover-up in Iraq.

The New York Times: "A military investigation into the deaths of two dozen Iraqis last November is expected to find that a small number of marines in western Iraq carried out extensive, unprovoked killings of civilians, Congressional, military and Pentagon officials said Thursday."

The Los Angeles Times: "Marines from Camp Pendleton wantonly killed unarmed Iraqi civilians, including women and children, and then tried to cover up the slayings in the insurgent stronghold of Haditha, military investigations have found."

Using extensive anonymous sourcing -- including "officials who have seen the findings," "Marine officials," "Congressional, military and Pentagon officials," "two lawyers involved in discussions about individual marines' defenses," and more -- the papers depict an investigation on the verge of charges that could surpass previous U.S. war crimes allegations in Iraq.

Along with the case, both papers mention a Marine Commandant Gen. Michael Hagee's warning to his troops this week: "We use lethal force only when justified, proportional and, most importantly, lawful."

As the papers note, the situation surrounding the Haditha incident was first reported by Time magazine in March. "Because the incident is officially under investigation, members of the Marine unit that was in Haditha on Nov. 19 are not allowed to speak with reporters," Time reports in the story. "But the military's own reconstruction of events and the accounts of town residents interviewed by Time — including six whose family members were killed that day — paint a picture of a devastatingly violent response by a group of U.S. troops who had lost one of their own to a deadly insurgent attack and believed they were under fire."

The story also mention the comments of Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa., after receiving a briefing on the case. Marines had "killed innocent civilians in cold blood," Murtha said. "It's much worse than was reported in Time magazine."

http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2006/05/reports_probe_t.html


Items of Interest

13 comments:

chancuff said...

As most who attended the rally know, I was there. After the dust had cleared created by some moonbat among the bootmurtha crowd who called in a fake police report that a fight had broken out, Larry Bailey came out to speak with me.


I complimented him from the bottom of my heart for the contributions he has made to our country's national security while he was serving active duty in the US Navy.

He made it clear my request to speak would not happen. He then proceeded to suggest he has no memory of the email he wrote me on 8/20/2006 2:59:30 P.M. Eastern Standard Time stating that our current Commander in Chief made stupid mistakes in Iraq.

Larry then proceeded to illustrate stupid mistakes made in passed wars. After he mentioned 3 or 4 examples I interjected that there is a difference between those wars and this one.

In the past it took weeks, months, sometimes years for mistakes to be discovered and reported. Today is the information age where mistakes are reported within hours of their occurrence. I reminded him this war was still going on. I also reminded him of the glaring mistakes he had acknowledged President Bush had made in Iraq, and our respective use of the Internet to support our respective views and that is where our conversation ended.

I waited outside the Arena with a Johnstown police officer who had stayed behind after the bootmurtha hysterics caused 3 squad cars and a sergeant to arrive with sirens blaring. I was debating Steeler football with him when a motorcycle officer stopped by, who had been inside. When I asked how many were inside he said, "not many at all" When I asked "500?", he responded, "na ... well maybe 500, at most."

At the end of the event when Larry Bailey came out for a photo op next to the bootmurtha.com sign on the sidewalk outside the War Memorial Arena. I handed Larry the speech I had waited to deliver. He put it in his outside left coat pocket.

This is my speech Larry Bailey has in his coat pocket ... the words he was not man enough to let me say:


"Please join me in Prayer.

Heavily father we pray today for you to continue to protect the men and women of the armed forces of the United States and other countries who are in harms way in Iraq, Afghanistan, and other countries throughout the world. We thank them and their families for their sacrifices.

We pray for the souls of those who have made the ultimate sacrifice in all wars. We pray for strength and courage for the POWs and MIAs and those held hostage.

We pray for protection and safety of relief workers helping those in need.

We pray for the protection of children and innocent civilians. Lord we especially pray for our nation and our leaders."


.
Below you will find the press release that went out on October 29th of this year.
.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
.
LARRY BAILEY (BOOTMURTHA.COM) OCTOBER 1ST RALLY IN JOHNSTOWN, PA.

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
CONTACT: Cliff Hancuff
September 29, 2006 (202) 247-1418
Journalismisflat@aol.com

"American troops could be home now, except for critical mistakes made by our current Commander in Chief," charges Cliff Hancuff, Director of The World of Journalism Is Flat, Too.

"Media and right-wing bloggers are ignoring this fact. For weeks I have been challenging political activists and journalists to act with a minimum of ethical standards," continued Hancuff.

"I became involved when the Sun-Sentinel in Florida reported that Rep. John Murtha (D-Pa.) said the U.S. poses the top threat to world peace. I watched in dismay as the media and bloggers worldwide reported on this misquote."

"My involvement continued when I discovered Diana Irey, John Murtha's political opponent, had attacked Murtha using a fictional quote attributed to Abraham Lincoln."

"Larry Bailey of bootmurtha.com is continuing his three year blind support of our current Commander in Chief's incompetence in war. President Bush declared war in Iraq without the 4th Infantry, our most lethal, modern, and deployable heavy division in the world," added Hancuff.

This mistake lead to the atrocity of Al Qaqaa. Iraqi insurgents stole hundreds of tons of high explosives to be used as weaponry.

"These are the explosives being used by Iraqi insurgents and al Qaeda to perpetuate the war in Iraq."

"I am distressed that the same issues ignored by Swift Boat Veterans for Truth in 2004 are being ignored again in 2006," said Hancuff adding, "Americans, American soldiers, and their families deserve better."

"Without these critical mistakes made by our current Commander in Chief, our American troops would be home with their loved ones, with honor, right now."

On October 1, 2006 Hancuff be at the Cambria County War Memorial Arena located in Johnstown Pennsylvania for Larry Bailey's Swiftboating of John Murtha rally. It is there Hancuff will continue his wait for Mr. Bailey to recall the values of honor and integrity taught him by our US Navy.

There is a youtube.com video online at:

YouTube - Rovian Architecture Unplugged

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5jcyHokFyE


The World of Journalism Is Flat, Too
(202) 247-1418

-30-

Net the Truth Online said...

Net the Truth Online appreciates the reply to "Quick on the Draw," however, we take issue with chanuff's implication that Net the Truth Online is among websites and blogs which have used a Sun-Sentinel quote attributed to Rep. John Murtha which has been disputed.

In the comment, chancuff quotes from a September 29, 2006 Press Release, wherein Cliff Hancuff, Director of The World of Journalism Is Flat, Too says:

Excerpt:
"I became involved when the Sun-Sentinel in Florida reported that Rep. John Murtha (D-Pa.) said the U.S. poses the top threat to world peace. I watched in dismay as the media and bloggers worldwide reported on this misquote."

Why has Hancuff posted this Press Release here, which includes the quote noted, which states:

"...I watched in dismay as the media and bloggers worldwide reported on this misquote."

chanuff's implication by the post to "Quick on the Draw" is that Net the Truth Online has reported the Sun Sentinel quote, and as anyone can determine from a close reading of "Quick on the Draw" that simply is not the case.

The attempt to discredit Net the Truth Online is herein refuted.

Net the Truth Online has not reported on the Sun-Sentinel's report which includes, reportedly, "that Rep. John Murtha (D-Pa.) said the U.S. poses the top threat to world peace."

Net the Truth Online - in "Quick on the Draw" - has reported what has been substantiated as a Rep. John Murtha quote:

"Our troops (in Haditha) overreacted because of the pressure on them and killed innocent civilians in cold blood."

Net the Truth Online's commentary in "Quick on the Draw" is based on that specific quotation by Rep. John Murtha.

The same is true in Net the Truth Online's

Behind the coverage of Haditha

"Should the Iraqis' Accounts of Marines Killing Innocents Prove False Rep. Murtha and Media Using anonymous sources should suffer "

We have not used or commented on the Sun-Sentinel's report, or whether the quote attributed to Murtha is inaccurate or accurate, but now that the subject has arisen, we will look into what has been going around.

Our original opinion stands.

Further, as time has passed since the Murtha statement and he has refused to make a retraction, Murtha is undeserving of re-election since he has abused the "public trust," voters have placed in him.

By his words, John Murtha has revealed he is untrustworthy to be fair and reasoned. He was judge, jury, and executioner of our own United States troops before an investigation of the situation was even begun.

Net the Truth Online said...

Tracking Cliff's commentary to find if Net the Truth Online is included incorrectly as using a Sun-Sentinel quote attributed to Rep. John Murtha which has been reportedly, disputed...

Nope, not here, Cliff goes into the Lincoln quote...

democracyarsenal.org

Abe Spoke the Truth quote
thebullspeaks.com

“Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled, or hanged.”

~ Abraham Lincoln ~

Cliff responds to use of Lincoln quote, says it's a fabrication

americancitizensoldier.blogspot.com

scrutinyhooligans.blogspot.com

By Hancuff's own words he has been spamming FreeRepublic and the "blogsphere"

Apparently Cliff Hancuff is quite old to know as absolute fact that President Lincoln did not utter these words, ever, and has made it his life's mission to be sure the world knows it as well. Those of you that are interested, may find Cliff Hancuff's words here and here and here for starters.
Origin of a Specious Quote -
Then:
"Congressmen who willfully take action during wartime that damage morale and undermine the military are saboteurs, and should be arrested, exiled or hanged," that's what President Abraham Lincoln said during the War Between the States.
-J. Michael Waller, "Democrats Usher in An Age of Treason." Insight magazine, 23 Dec. 2003.

Now:
The supposed quote in question is not a quote at all, and I never intended it to be construed as one. It was my lead sentence in the article that a copy editor mistakenly turned into a quote by incorrectly inserting quotation marks.
-J. Michael Waller, email to FactCheck.org, Aug. 21, 2006

The above alleged correspondence can be found here: Factcheck.org

Just a Nobody

Hmm, well obviously Cliff posted on Net the Truth Online just for the heck of it and didn't even read what Net the Truth Online quoted, with pertinent links included. We don't use the Lincoln quote, either.

Net the Truth Online said...

Ah, ha

http://www.bootmurtha.com/Why.htm

Net the Truth Online said...

Ah ha ah ha

http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/daley/051206

Net the Truth Online said...

Ah ha ah ha ah ha

http://murthamustgo.blogspot.com/

Net the Truth Online said...

Yep, all Murtha did was cite ... "the example of a recent Pew Poll which indicates a greater percentage of people in 14 foreign countries consider the U.S. in Iraq a danger to world peace than consider Iran or North Korea a danger to world peace."

Confused Americans for Truth - Murtha May Not Be as Crazy as We Thought

conservativecat

OK now what did he say prior to the comment about the poll during the speaking engagement?

OK where is the original transcript of the speech?

Veterans forum at the Florida International University Biscayne Campus on June 24, 2006

Murtha quoted out of context on 2 occasions

Murtha disputes the quote

OK The original transcript of the veterans forum, please...

Getting close...

According to a July 8, 2006 Washington Times editorial, where apparently a video was seen of the speech, Murtha’s actual words were, "Every one of our allies think that the United States being in Iraq is more dangerous to world stability and world peace, every one of our allies; Great Britain, every single country... They think it's more, uh, we're more dangerous to world peace than North Korea or Iran.”

allthingsright

Closer-rr

What Murtha Really Said
Previously we noted a controversial speech by Rep. John Murtha (D-PA) at a town hall meeting in Miami, FL, June 24, 2006. Elizabeth Baier, the reporter on the story, was forced by her editors at the Sun-Sentinel to do a hatchet job (or it was done for her) on the story in the face of an organized effort led by well funded liberal groups like Media Matters and Think Progress, and Murtha's office that he was misquoted.

Here is the retracted first paragraph, as originally reported.

MIAMI -- American presence in Iraq is more dangerous to world peace than nuclear threats from North Korea or Iran, Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa., said to an audience of more than 200 in North Miami Saturday afternoon.
Well we now have the video tape from the event, and Murtha's words can speak for themselves. Going into the clip (transcript below), Murtha was discussing Abu Ghraib and the McCain torture legislation.

http://wizbangblog.com/2006/07/06/what-murtha-really-said.php

OK did Murtha say what was originally attributed to him in the Sun-Sentinel.

Net the Truth Online said...

The following is very thorough, we need search no longer as according to this site, the original article didn't contain those quotation marks which would have attributed the quote to Murtha.

Ha ha... now we all have to be very very careful about our quotations, don't we?

"...As seen in Elizabeth Baier's original news report, Rep. John Murtha was not quoted making the comments attributed to him in the South Florida Sun-Sentinel story..."

http://theinfozone.net/JohnMurtha.html

Net the Truth Online said...

Ah we had to find another one, didn't we. It appears Cliff didn't really read the entirety of infozone either, even though Cliff recommended the subject for infozone to research!


I’ve sent inquiries to the entire editorial boards of the Sun Sentinel, Wall Street Journal, Arizona Sun Star and Miami Herald, as well as Knight Ridder, asking them to persue any copy of any recording of this event, in persuit of the real news story, Elizabeth Baier.

It shouldn’t take more than a day, or three, for Ms Baier to experience personally, what she felt entitled to foist on John Murtha’s head. Whether you like or despise John Murtha is no longer the story. The real story is … just how far has mainstream media sunk? Is Jerry Springer Journalism the new standard for reporters? I spent a few hours on the phone with a friend of mine who is editor for a news site. I’m letting him run with this ball. You can follow how this story develops at:...

http://theinfozone.net/

chancuff


badgerblogger

Hey, we're reluctant to put anything in quotes now...

The foregoing was obtained by a simple google search and way more hours than should have been spent, but we found truth, didn't we?

Google search resultsstill under investigation at Net the Truth Online

Google search results will Cliff Hancuff note that Net the Truth Online never quoted the Murtha quote that wasn't actually a quote?

Net the Truth Online said...

Haditha report to be made public
North County Times ^ | 7/11/06 | Mark Walker and Teri Figueroa


Posted on 07/11/2006 9:41:24 PM PDT by NormsRevenge

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1664125/posts

Net the Truth Online said...

New Evidence Emerges in Haditha Case
Phil Brennan, NewsMax
Monday, June 26, 2006

newsmax

Net the Truth Online said...

Interesting analysis of Murtha phrasing...

BY JAMES TARANTO
Thursday, May 18, 2006 5:00 p.m. EDT

'In Cold Blood'
The Pentagon is investigating whether U.S. Marines committed war crimes in a November incident in which 15 Iraqi civilians were killed in Haditha, Iraq. NBC News reports that Rep. John Murtha, who voted for the war in Iraq, claims to have advance knowledge of the investigation's outcome:

Murtha, a vocal opponent of the war in Iraq, said at a news conference Wednesday that sources within the military have told him that an internal investigation will show that "there was no firefight, there was no IED (improvised explosive device) that killed these innocent people. Our troops overreacted because of the pressure on them, and they killed innocent civilians in cold blood."

What happened in Haditha we know not, but we can tell you that Murtha's description is false, for the simple reason that it is self-contradictory. If the Marines "overreacted," then the killings were not premeditated. They could not have killed both in the heat of the moment and in cold blood. Murtha therefore either is slandering the Marines by exaggerating their guilt or making excuses for horrific war crimes.

Why would he do such a thing? The key is that phrase "because of the pressure on them." They're depraved on account of they're deployed: Murtha seeks to maximize the evil of the alleged crimes while simultaneously deflecting blame from the actual perpetrators to those who have applied "pressure" to them--i.e., civilian leaders in the executive branch.

Sound familiar? This was just what John Kerry did back in 1971, when he told tales (many of them false) of war crimes in Vietnam. Yet in his own mind, he wasn't accusing troops of anything, as he explained in a 2004 CNN interview:

I was accusing American leaders of abandoning the troops. And if you read what I said, it is very clearly an indictment of leadership. I said to the Senate, where is the leadership of our country? And it's the leaders who are responsible, not the soldiers. I never said that. I've always fought for the soldiers.

War crimes do, of course, exist, even if Kerry told fabricated stories. To excuse war criminals by denying that soldiers are responsible for their actions is an insult to everyone who has ever worn a military uniform and conducted himself honorably and lawfully.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/?id=110008392

SNAKE HUNTERS said...

I must be very careful because someone may quote me, so...

I'll simply say this: Chancuff is
full of Pious Poop!

a) He should not attempt to Pray In Public, refr his "Please join me in Prayer..."

b)I refer Cliff Hancuff to Matt:6-5
where Jesus warned the Hypocrites
not to do that! reb

www.lazyonebenn.blogspot.com